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New Let's see if I follow this
When AOL blocks gun issues, GOA wants the government to stop them from doing that.

A coalition of interest groups support legislation that would prohibit all companies from blocking any issues.

Someone notices that other members of the coalition are trying to protect liberal/progressive ideas.

GOA clarifies that no, telling companies they can't filter their issue is defending the constitution; but defending those other people's issues is "a massive regulatory regime".

Is that about the size of it?
--

Drew
New you got it :-)
when your fellow travellers want you shut up as much as the government and moveon and acorn are all about censorship of conservatism its time to bail
Expand Edited by boxley Aug. 24, 2010, 01:11:02 PM EDT
New Not necessarily
as the rules that the FCC would use to "guarantee" neutrality are probably going to be as bad or worse than the content filtering that most were worried about.

I don't think it has anything to do with "filtering ideas" anymore. Net neutrality has now become a "government program". Its all in this quote...
The FCC is considering a move to boost its authority over broadband providers through a controversial process known as reclassification. The process could give federal regulators the power to impose net-neutrality rules, which would prevent Internet access providers from favoring some content and applications over others.


moveon won't have any problem with this...as its the governments role to fix everything...but conservative groups will see this as a government takeover.

Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New I don't see it
I assume you're focusing on the phrase "power to impose ... rules" as the "government takeover". But to do that you have to leave out "net-neutrality" and "which would prevent Internet access providers from favoring some content and applications over others."

So the full quote says exactly what rules they're talking about, and what it would cover. It reads to me like they're trying to ensure broadband providers continue to act as common carriers. Obviously this quote is not the legislation, but you have to work pretty hard to construe the quote given as meaning "government takeover".
--

Drew
New Where you stand depends on where you sit
and who pays for the chair.

ANY regulation of the wire will cost Box time and money. ANY.

If not him personally, than his company, which might have a bit less to disburse to it's employees. so it is a perfectly reasonable inflexible stance.

I got a future brother-in-law. He's a prison guard. He was lamenting about the lack of funds for prisons, and how the various laws were "easing" up. Philly dropped penalties for small marijuana possession, and this means they need less prison guards.

His buddies are being laid off. That's all he sees. This is bad. Anything that directly affects him and his "professional" peer group is their number 1 concern. He would prefer that the laws become "tighter", so more people go to jail, so his buddies will then be called back to work.

FUCK THEM ALL FOR THAT ATTITUDE. Prison guards are a necessary evil in society, but they obviously are horribly biased on the laws that feed them prisoners and money.

And people who work for ISPs are a necessary good, to keep the packets flowing, but it only takes a router priority tweak (or campaign contribution) to turn them into a hunted evil.
New who is paying the bill?
google? FCC? Moveon? codepink? or the majority of my customers? ClueX4 I only really care about one of them and its my customers.
New Doesn't Net Neutrality help customers?
I know you've always said "No", but I don't remember ever seeing enough words to understand why.

If Time Warner gets in a pissing match with NBC, maybe they'll decide that Hulu doesn't "need" enough bandwidth to stream properly. How does that help me as a customer?
--

Drew
New or...
Maybe Comcast starts not liking YouTube... or Netflix's streaming... or Blockbuster's streaming... and tweaks a router to de-prioritize all of those services traffic... and favors its own service that sucks... and costs an arm and a leg.

Again, to Bill how is that helping me as a customer?
New it isnt, and they would lose you as a customer to a telco
or another IP and they understand that.
New Why would the other be any better?
Let's see, if I want Netflix to work I need to use Time Warner. If I want YouTube, I need Comcast. If I want Hulu I'll have to get DishNetwork.

Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.
--

Drew
New why do you think that is the plan?
oh, moveon and codepink have told you that. Read wnd and get some balance wouldja?
or read what they are actually up to
http://www.ncta.com/...inary.aspx?id=918
now I am all for net neutrality. Based on the fact that I cant impede any net traffic, I turn down all of my edge services cut my storage one 3rd and publish a policy that we recycle space every 3 days so be sure to pick up your neutral messages in a timely manner
New NAF's comments.
http://www.newameric...eply_Comments.pdf (48 page .PDF):

p.4
No proposals for legislation or putative compromises on open Internet principles can answer questions about the proper interpretation of the statute, the correct classification of broadband Internet connectivity, or the Commission’s ultimate authority to enforce any rules related to broadband communications. Clarifying and re-establishing Commission authority over the transmission and access components of broadband Internet connectivity offerings is necessary for more than preserving the open Internet. Classifying broadband Internet connectivity service as a telecommunications service also is the best way for the Commission to achieve other National Broadband Plan goals, implement universal service fund (“USF”) reform, protect online privacy, enhance broadband-based public safety initiatives, promote broadband access for disabled users, and develop rules for transparency and truth-in-billing measures that protect broadband users.

The reply comments that follow cite abundant support in the record for the proposition that the Commission should classify wired and wireless broadband Internet connectivity as a telecommunications service. This is the best reading of the statute and the best way to achieve these vital national broadband goals efficiently and effectively. Congress may choose to act in this field, but there is no assurance of when it will or what it may do so. The Commission need not sit by in the meantime, but instead should interpret the statute faithfully, revisit classification decisions made under a prior administration, and use the authority it possesses already to regulate telecommunications services “regardless of the facilities used”7 to offer such services.


p.17-18:
Cox was one of the network operators in the initial round of comments continuing to press the idea that broadband Internet connectivity is somehow inseparable or inextricably intertwined with operator-provided information services delivered over this broadband transmission platform.52 The cable operator indicated that it does not sell its broadband Internet connectivity service to customers separately, and that it instead bundles this capacity together with information services that it requires its customers to buy as a package.53 However, as the Public Interest Commenters explained in their initial comments, the transmission service that broadband Internet connectivity represents is not inextricably intertwined with the information services that such network operators also may make available to customers.54 Therefore, “the information services that broadband Internet connectivity service providers may bundle together with their transmission service are not legally, technically, commercially, or practicably inseparable from the underlying telecommunications service.”55 In fact, as Public Interest Commenters also explained, the regulatory classification and statutory framework for services that providers offer to customers cannot be dependent on the manner in which those services are bundled together for marketing purposes.56 Just as the Commission is not required to define an entire “triple-play” bundle (combining voice, video, and data offerings) as one type of service within the regulatory frameworks of the Act, it does not need to define broadband Internet connectivity as an “information service” simply because providers may choose also to offer email and news gathering services. That is true even if a provider, such as Cox or another broadband network operator, purports to require that its customers purchase the whole bundle of services.


FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New correct
so unplug you cable modem and check your email. Let me know how it works out for you and if you still think broadband and information services can be de-linked like the so called commentators.
thanx,
bill
New I get my email from my web host, not my ISP
Information services that are transmitted over the internet require that I have an internet connection. They don't require that I have a particular internet connection. Cox is arguing that they do.

I know you work in email, and email represents a large portion of total internet traffic. (Less by the day, with the advent of streaming video.) But how much of that email is ISP email?

In a totally unscientific survey, I've got over 8,400 names on my mailing lists. Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail account for more than 4,900 of them. So your earlier "threat" to delete mail after three days? Would affect less than half my readers.

If anyone actually tried it, a whole lot more people would decouple their email addresses from their ISPs. And once that lock-in is gone, what's to keep them from switching to a new provider? That's the only reason ISPs provide email any more.
--

Drew
New Ditto. We've never checked our e-mail on our Cox account.
New whoosh, point=missed
disconnect your cable modem, then try to get your google yahoo or aol mail. Still think they are decoupled? Hardly. Without a transport layer 1-3 you cant get layers 4-7 very successfully. You can get the first 3 layers from telcos cable companies wifimax as well as SAT mixed with a pots and 56k modem.

Net neutrality means you cant get thru to 911 via your voip phone because the neighbor is downloading GBs of porn and the QOS for voip cant be used by law. Your loss.
New Is that what it means? Really?
Cox is saying that their broadband and their email are a single product. Can't have just broadband, because they don't sell it that way.

Do you agree with that position? Is it true that it's not possible to offer broadband service that doesn't do anything except connect to the internet at a given rate?

And what about the other example? What if Time Warner decides to block all traffic from NetFlix. And Comcast decides to block everything from Hulu. (For "block" you can assume I mean, "slow it down so much the service is unusable".) Should that be allowed? Do you think market forces alone are sufficient to prevent it? (Hint: It's already happened.) If it is a problem, what should be done about it?

As for 911 service, is it impossible that there could be an exception made? Or might it be time to recognize that a whole lot of people aren't using the POTS any more, and we should reexamine how 911 is accomplished, rather than just pass laws protecting the POTS?
--

Drew
New Specious argument.
Without electricity your cable modem won't work, therefore the power company should have a say on traffic through the modem?

It doesn't work that way.

Net neutrality means that the pipe owners can't discriminate against those companies that don't pay for preferential treatment.

http://www.startribu...iD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

Cheers,
Scott.
New so downloading porn == telephone service. okay
New QOS is NOT the issue here.
QOS has been defined for a long time and it is understood and VOIP has to be guaranteed and honored if it Sets the QOS flag.

TOR, Bit-torrent and other things don't set the QOS flag.

You are comparing service flags vs content. Not entirely correct at all.
New bullshit greg, you know better
content is just thst. Everyone else is claiming all services are equal, that is their argument. If it isnt then you have government dictating what service is worth a higher QOS instead of the network operators. You sure that is where you want to go?
Think pinkon and moveorg are declared protected content as opposed to webmd and mikevitale.com. Thats what they envision for the airwaves why wouldnt they extend it to the net. By the way wikileaks would be relagated to a maybe status
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Oh, cool, code words...
Classifying broadband Internet connectivity service as a telecommunications service also is the best way for the Commission to achieve other National Broadband Plan goals, implement universal service fund (“USF”) reform, protect online privacy, enhance broadband-based public safety initiatives, promote broadband access for disabled users, and develop rules for transparency and truth-in-billing measures that protect broadband users.


Classify it as telecom so you can TAX it effectively.

Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New It *is* telecom
It's only a historical accident that anyone ever thought it wasn't. For the past 15 years, whenever someone said, "There's no law that covers that on the internet," they were wrong.

Saying that existing laws can't be applied to the intenet is like saying all you have to do is add the words "on the internet" to a longstanding business process and you can get a patent. "We auction stuff off ... on the internet! Gimme a patent, bitches."
--

Drew
New Doesn't mean...
it has to be classified the same way as your telephone. Doing that just lets them tax it by adding USF to it.

It was only a matter of time.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New You don't like the USF. Now tell me why it's not a telecom.
--

Drew
New doesnt use the AIN so its not a telecom, no a-links needed
your anology is like having amtrack administer the highway system as well as the FAA. Why not, its all transportation.
New Verizon says you're wrong
No, actually the Telecommunications Act of 1996 says you're wrong. I just got the link from Verizon -- http://www22.verizon...tions_act_of_1996
Telecommunications Act of 1996

Public Law 104-104, enacted February 8, 1996, provided comprehensive reform of the 1934 Communications Act. The Act was designed to foster competition among local telephone, long distance telephone, cable and other communications companies.


http://www22.verizon...nications_service
Telecommunications Service

As defined in the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the offering of telecommunications for a fee directly to the public, or to such classes of users as to be effectively available directly to the public, regardless of the facilities used to transmit the telecommunications services.


http://www22.verizon...elecommunications
Telecommunications

As defined in the Telecommunications Act of 1996, transmission between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received. Any transmission, emission, or reception of signs, signals, writings, images, and sounds or intelligence by wire, radio, optical, or other electromagnetic systems.


How does an ISP not fit that definition?
--

Drew
New federal court said you are wrong, they should know
http://connectedplan...-p2p-ruling-0406/
New Have you read Brand X?
The Comcast ruling was based on Brand X -- http://www.law.corne...ml/04-277.ZS.html

You can read the whole thing, but here are the key points (as relates to the question of "is cable modem service telecommunications?").

In the Declaratory Ruling under review, the [Federal Communications] Commission classified broadband cable modem service as an "information service" but not a "telecommunications service" under the 1996 Act, so that it is not subject to mandatory Title II common-carrier regulation.

...

In particular, the [district] court held [in overturning the Commission's finding] that the Commission could not permissibly construe the Communications Act to exempt cable companies providing cable modem service from mandatory Title II regulation. Rather than analyzing the permissibility of that construction under the deferential framework of Chevron U.S. A. Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U.S. 837, however, the court grounded that holding in the stare decisis effect of its decision in AT&T Corp. v. Portland, 216 F.3d 871, which had held that cable modem service is a "telecommunications service."

...

Chevron requires a federal court to defer to an agency’s construction, even if it differs from what the court believes to be the best interpretation, if the particular statute is within the agency’s jurisdiction to administer, the statute is ambiguous on the point at issue, and the agency’s construction is reasonable.

The key point here is that the ruling in Brand X was not whether cable modem service qualifies as "telecommunications service" or "information service", but whether the Circuit Court was allowed to overrule the finding of the FCC on an ambiguously worded statute.

So what did the Circuit Court find?
Because Portland held only that the best reading of §153(46) was that cable modem service was "telecommunications service," not that this was the only permissible reading or that the Communications Act unambiguously required it, the Ninth Circuit erred in refusing to apply Chevron. Pp. 10—14.

So the Ninth Circuit agreed with me, that cable modem is "telecommunications service". The Supreme Court didn't rule on that issue, merely saying that the issue was ambiguous and therefore within the purview of the FCC to define.

As to whether the language was ambiguous -- ie: is it reasonable to conclude that cable modem is not "telecommunications service":
Seen from the consumer's point of view, the Commission concluded, the cable wire is used to access the World Wide Web, newsgroups, etc., rather than "transparently" to transmit and receive ordinary-language messages without computer processing or storage of the message.

...

It is common usage to describe what a company "offers" to a consumer as what the consumer perceives to be the integrated finished product, even to the exclusion of discrete components that compose the product.

...

As the Commission recognized, the service that Internet access providers offer the public is Internet access, not a transparent ability (from the end-user’s perspective) to transmit information.

This view depends on defining "the consumer" as a single, monolithic block of users, none of whom understand the technology at issue. On this point I think the Supreme Court simply got it wrong, allowing the least technologically-aware segment of the population stand in as a proxy for the whole.

Finally:
The traditional reason for its Computer II common-carrier treatment of facilities-based carriers was that the telephone network was the primary, if not the exclusive, means through which information service providers could gain access to their customers. The Commission applied the same treatment to DSL service based on that history, rather than on an analysis of contemporaneous market conditions. The Commission's Declaratory Ruling, by contrast, concluded that changed market conditions warrant different treatment of cable modem service. Unlike at the time of the DSL order, substitute forms of Internet transmission exist today, including wireline, cable, terrestrial wireless, and satellite. The Commission therefore concluded that broadband services should exist in a minimal regulatory environment that promotes investment and innovation in a competitive market.

Part of the reasoning for the change has nothing to do with what the service is, and instead depends on whether there is a competitive marketplace, and what greater need is served. So as I said: A historical accident.

Note that this ruling only applies to cable internet service. DSL is still regulated under the common carrier provisions.

So:

1. The Circuit Court agreed with me that broadband internet service -- excuse me, cable internet service -- is a "telecommunications service".

2. The Supreme Court said that whether that was true or not, the regulations were sufficiently ambiguous that the Circuit Court should have allowed the Commission's interpretation to stand.

2a. They found that the regulation was ambiguous by assuming that end-users were not well educated about the offerings.

3. The court allowed a different interpretation of DSL broadband vs. cable broadband based not on the offering and how it was perceived by the end-user, but on market conditions and issues of competition.

So the court didn't say I'm wrong. And in fact, now that I've read the decisions behind this story, I realize your case is even weaker than I thought. Because the decision hinged on the fact that the FCC has jurisdiction to determine whether cable internet providers should be considered common carriers. So it is entirely within the rights of the FCC to impose Net Neutrality. The existing case law supports their jurisdiction to do so.
--

Drew
New hafta take this offline if you are really interested
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New I didn't say it wasn't telecom
I said >they< want to reclassify it so it fits in with the USF so they can TAX it just like the phone. So you will see new excise, USF and other charges added.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Sure, it's all about TAXes. As always. Sure... :-/
New Is that NOT what you think
that earlier quote about restructuring the USF was about? If so, please enlighten us with what YOU think it means?
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Let's see.
What's the underlying context of this discussion? The National Broadband Plan - http://www.broadband...action-items.html

Goal No. 1: At least 100 million U.S. homes should have affordable access to actual download speeds of at least 100 megabits per second and actual upload speeds of at least 50 megabits per second.

Goal No. 2: The United States should lead the world in mobile innovation, with the fastest and most extensive wireless networks of any nation.

Goal No. 3: Every American should have affordable access to robust broadband service, and the means and skills to subscribe if they so choose.

Goal No. 4: Every community should have affordable access to at least 1 gigabit per second broadband service to anchor institutions such as schools, hospitals, and government buildings.

Goal No. 5: To ensure the safety of American communities, every first responder should have access to a nationwide, wireless, interoperable broadband public safety network.

Goal No. 6: To ensure that America leads in the clean energy economy, every American should be able to use broadband to track and manage their real-time energy consumption.


What's the USF? http://www.usac.org/about/usac/

The Universal Service Administrative Company (USAC) is an independent, not-for-profit corporation designated as the administrator of the federal Universal Service Fund by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). USAC administers Universal Service Fund (USF) programs for high cost companies serving rural areas, low-income consumers, rural health care providers, and schools and libraries. The Universal Service Fund helps provide communities across the country with affordable telecommunications services.

The Universal Service Fund is one fund with four programs. The four programs are:

* High Cost - This support ensures that consumers in all regions of the nation have access to and pay rates for telecommunications services that are reasonably comparable to those in urban areas.
* Low Income - This support, commonly known as Lifeline and Link Up, provides discounts that make basic, local telephone service affordable for more than 7 million low-income consumers.
* Rural Health Care - This support provides reduced rates to rural health care providers for telecommunications and Internet services so they pay no more than their urban counterparts for the same or similar telecommunications services.
* Schools & Libraries - This support, commonly referred to as E-rate support, provides affordable telecommunications and Internet access services to connect schools and libraries to the Internet. This support goes to service providers that provide discounts on eligible services to eligible schools, school districts, libraries, and consortia of these entities.

High Cost and Low Income support is managed by the High Cost and Low Income Division (HCLID). Rural Health Care support is managed by the Rural Health Care Division (RHCD). Schools and Libraries support is managed by the Schools and Libraries Division (SLD). USAC has a diverse 19-member Board of Directors comprised of representatives of universal service stakeholders.


What's USF reform? http://en.wikipedia....al_Service_reform

Current debate over the Universal Service Fund currently involves the scope of the funding, which technology types and companies should fund the program, which groups should be eligible for benefits, and the need to clean up waste and fraud in the program. Changes in technology and the marketplace have led to the need for reform of USF.

The development of new telecommunications technology is constant. Many of the services covered by the USF are related to traditional telephone technology. There is a rising concern that some of the more recent developments in telecommunications are just as important to the consumer as these older technologies. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 specifically states that "advanced services" should be accessible to all Americans [Section 254(b)(3)]. A question currently debated is whether access to broadband internet should be supported by the USF and if so, how best to fulfill such a large mandate without damaging the stability of the fund.


What does it mean? Well, since the FCC is pushing a mandate to expand broadband across the country to as much of the population as possible, it seems to me that the USF fits into that. Reform of the USF fits into that.

It's not about TAXes. Its about expanding service and making sure that service is open.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Let's see.
i would be satisfied that every household have reasonable access to food and water, we aint there yet. Socialist much?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New ...
New So you're in favour of letting people starve to death?
Because not to do so would be "socialist". (If that's not how to read what you wrote, then what is?) You do realise, I hope, that the opposite of "socialist", in that case, seems to be "utter arsehole".

But the Other Scott of course said all that so much more elegantly than I... Because all the above is exactly what his "..." meant, I am willing to wager.

And to think I accused poor *BeeP* of being a Rush-head...!
New point=missed
I am concerned that people have access to adequate food and water, in america some people do go to bed hungry (if they have a bed) Scott is concerned that these hungry people get broadband.
Unca Joe Steele was a socialist, he loved them kulaks
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Expand Edited by boxley Sept. 15, 2010, 12:43:09 PM EDT
New Considering that you are {unnaturally!} oft better-informed
about the hysterical soap opera which Murican 'politics' always is:
I doubt that you are surprised that our 'Social Security' ... ie. the very Idea that there should Be Such a Thing
-- is currently under attack by various reactionary groupings (merely for having the concept 'social' anywhere around it.)

And such fulminations are (see Russ Feingold matters) successfully beating-out re-electable long-time non-lunatic seat holders,
in preparation for the verbal diarrhea to accompany {{shudder}} the little dances to be held in November.

Now I know what you're thinking:
IF'n 'They' replace living-breathing humans with such pod-people droids, aren't they Shooting-in-gonads
-- the Party (they have devoured into irrelevance) -- to the benefit of the Opposition?
Yeah, one might think so, but this be Murica 2010.

(Let the shuddering commence early, so those muscles will be strong enough to bear the November Shudders in all sentient onlookers.)


Carrion

PS -- welcome back from the Void!





I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New Let's see, part B
The Telecommunications Act of 1996 specifically states that "advanced services" should be accessible to all Americans

The reasoning in Brand X explicitly held that cable internet was an "information service" and not a "telecommunications service" because "advanced services" == "information services".

So if cable is an "advanced service", that's exactly what the USF is supposed to be providing.
--

Drew
New So who will pay
to run cable to the guy 100 miles up in the Rockies?

And the USF used to be only about telephone.

scope and tax creep.

Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New you already did, part of the stimulus package
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New But I also pay
every month on my land line bill. Paid also when I had the second line on VOIP.

Nothing to do with stimulus.

Now they want to hit me again, apparently, every month on my internet bill.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Poor beepster ... could your taxes be so onerous
because your income is so high?

Shed some of that pork and you too can be (almost) Tax-free.
(Hey.. works for me.)

:-0


I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New bwah ha ha
thats funny

Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Given rulings on fair use and other new technologies
do you expect that the federal government will get "rules" to "impose" neutrality correct?

It seems that you do.

I've a feeling here that the cure would be substantially worse than the disease.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New We already know what the Telcos et al want to do
They've already done it several times and gotten their hands slapped for it They will degrade performance of their competitors products where they pass through their network.

How would you propose to address that?
--

Drew
New Any law at all == totalitarianism
Why, yes, I am sipping a cup of tea, why do you ask?
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
New ;^> ... [© CRC. He says.]


I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New Bet I got it from someone. I only introduced it to IWT. ^_^
New Nice to see you stop by again.
Make it more often... I often miss your sense of clarity.
     its acorns fault - (boxley) - (51)
         Let's see if I follow this - (drook) - (50)
             you got it :-) - (boxley)
             Not necessarily - (beepster) - (48)
                 I don't see it - (drook) - (43)
                     Where you stand depends on where you sit - (crazy) - (40)
                         who is paying the bill? - (boxley) - (39)
                             Doesn't Net Neutrality help customers? - (drook) - (38)
                                 or... - (folkert) - (37)
                                     it isnt, and they would lose you as a customer to a telco - (boxley) - (36)
                                         Why would the other be any better? - (drook) - (35)
                                             why do you think that is the plan? - (boxley) - (34)
                                                 NAF's comments. - (Another Scott) - (33)
                                                     correct - (boxley) - (8)
                                                         I get my email from my web host, not my ISP - (drook) - (7)
                                                             Ditto. We've never checked our e-mail on our Cox account. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                             whoosh, point=missed - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                 Is that what it means? Really? - (drook)
                                                                 Specious argument. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                     so downloading porn == telephone service. okay -NT - (boxley)
                                                                 QOS is NOT the issue here. - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                     bullshit greg, you know better - (boxley)
                                                     Oh, cool, code words... - (beepster) - (23)
                                                         It *is* telecom - (drook) - (22)
                                                             Doesn't mean... - (beepster) - (21)
                                                                 You don't like the USF. Now tell me why it's not a telecom. -NT - (drook) - (20)
                                                                     doesnt use the AIN so its not a telecom, no a-links needed - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                         Verizon says you're wrong - (drook) - (3)
                                                                             federal court said you are wrong, they should know - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                 Have you read Brand X? - (drook) - (1)
                                                                                     hafta take this offline if you are really interested -NT - (boxley)
                                                                     I didn't say it wasn't telecom - (beepster) - (14)
                                                                         Sure, it's all about TAXes. As always. Sure... :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - (13)
                                                                             Is that NOT what you think - (beepster) - (12)
                                                                                 Let's see. - (Another Scott) - (11)
                                                                                     Re: Let's see. - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                         ... -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                         So you're in favour of letting people starve to death? - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                             point=missed - (boxley)
                                                                                             Considering that you are {unnaturally!} oft better-informed - (Ashton)
                                                                                     Let's see, part B - (drook)
                                                                                     So who will pay - (beepster) - (4)
                                                                                         you already did, part of the stimulus package -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                             But I also pay - (beepster) - (2)
                                                                                                 Poor beepster ... could your taxes be so onerous - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                     bwah ha ha - (beepster)
                     Given rulings on fair use and other new technologies - (beepster) - (1)
                         We already know what the Telcos et al want to do - (drook)
                 Any law at all == totalitarianism - (mhuber) - (3)
                     ;^> ... [© CRC. He says.] -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                         Bet I got it from someone. I only introduced it to IWT. ^_^ -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                             Nice to see you stop by again. - (folkert)

tilly remembers how to smell.
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