When I say bespoke...

Post #32,699 by pwhysall 3/19/02 3:48:35 AM Reply	When I say bespoke... ...I mean bespoke. We produce very large traffic management systems. I don't see MS on that turf, ever. If for no other reason than legal liability. MS have never produced a piece of software that exposes them to more than $5 or the cost of the product, whichever is the lower. The licence you link to is for beta 2 of the mobile internet toolkit. No such clause exists in the EULA for either Visual Studio 6 or Visual Studio.NET. Although I'm not a lawyer, I think said clause is probably not legitimate because MS have no legal right to discuss other people's software or the licencing thereof. It's a bit like saying you can buy my bulk coffee for your cafe, but only if you don't sell it along with milk from company X (and companies like company X). Ridiculous, IOW. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #32,701 by CRConrad 3/19/02 3:59:33 AM Reply	Ridiculous? Sure - but when has that ever stopped them?!?
Post #32,702 by Ashton 3/19/02 4:15:38 AM Reply	Yabut.. prolly more of your laws have to make sense in order to be enforced. There is no such reality check here, that I've noticed (except" appeal$ and more appeals - and then we have a kinda corrupt USSC, which has recently disgraced itself by making a political choice yada). Ditto your comments re (say, for another ex. of M$ 'terms') using M$ software to "work on" creation of an Open Source product. I doubt that anyone has tested that one either. How nutzo could it get? I couldn't imagine. Ashton
Post #32,716 by CRConrad 3/19/02 9:26:43 AM Reply	Oh, I almost forgot: What makes you think they'd accept... Peter blithely blithers: We produce very large traffic management systems. I don't see MS on that turf, ever. If for no other reason than legal liability. MS have never produced a piece of software that exposes them to more than $5 or the cost of the product, whichever is the lower. ...they'd accept any legal liability? They'll just put their standard EULA-disclaimer on it, and sell it anyway! You think they won't, once they own EVERYTHING else?!? Who buys your stuff -- city councils, entities like that, right? And what are they made up of? Civil servants, trustees, ex-engineers -- in short, PHBs, that's who! That, and -- even worse! -- politicians. You think they won't be just the folks to fall for the shiny happy chrome-laden GUI message from Redmond?!? That'd be a first... Doesn't Microsoft already own the OS you run the management console (or whatever you call it) on? ("Windows ain't done 'til [insert application here] don't run!" ring any bells?) And, once they've beat out the last OS competition on the server side, so they own the OS you run your main application on ("Windows ain't done 'til...") -- you'll still think "They'll never..."? Sheesh, man; can you spell 'naive'? Well, good luck to you anyway... You're gonna need it. Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #32,724 by Andrew Grygus 3/19/02 11:04:17 AM Reply	Microsoft's technique here is well tested. A market they don't know and have no competence in? They just buy a significant player and leverage integration with their other products to drive the rest out of business. That's precisely what they're doing with Great Plains, with aditional leverage from .NET. Great Plains not only is being integrated with Microsoft Office, it has the inside track on .NET with Microsoft developers working on integration. They'll be at least 6 months to a year ahead of everyone else on .NET technology. "I don't need no .NET"? Microsoft is, like, going to give you a choice? You use the Windows environment, .NET won't be an option. You may be dragged kicking and screaming, but the vast majority will go without a whimper. They laughed when Microsoft announced it's entering the CRM (Customer Relationship Management) market a couple weeks ago? This week MS announced that Microsoft CRM will be tightly integrated with Exchange Server, Outlook and .NET. Soon it won't even be an option - "installed by default". Methinks the laughter is getting a little thin right now. Liability? Your [company \| town ] is going to test the EULA against the most powerful [litigation \| intimidation \| buy-off] machine in the world? The one that defeated the U.S. Department of Justice? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #32,732 by ben_tilly 3/19/02 11:43:14 AM Reply	What they all said As for whether Microsoft will start entering such markets, it is only a question of when they don't have any more higher margin products left to go after first. And about the legal issue, IANAL, and I really am not conversant in UK law, but in contract law there aren't that many limitations to what each side can choose to put on the table. As I like to point out about the US situation, one of the significant limitations is that you cannot sell yourself into slavery. And that limitation is signifcant because there is nothing stopping you from being bound into anything less than that. (You might remember the details of a chat I had with you? Mind that that was confidential, but it may put things into perspective.) Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #32,773 by Meerkat 3/19/02 5:18:01 PM Reply	What about Traf-O-Data? :) On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #32,784 by pwhysall 3/19/02 6:07:35 PM Reply	Oh behave, you. :-) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]

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