Post #29,309
2/21/02 7:55:36 PM
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what the truth "is"
sh*t we cant even define what "is" is.
thanx,
bill
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
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Post #29,311
2/21/02 8:05:21 PM
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No dodging, no jokes, no bullshit.
This is the second time he's made statements about the "truth". When Leftists ideologues say there is no real truth, the truth itself becomes politicized. But remember, truth was here first. I'm waiting for him to clarify what he's saying. He seems to know alot about the "truth". Let's see what he says the "truth" is. I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction. He won't be able to answer. Not without attempting to make it a joke or a dodge.
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Post #29,313
2/21/02 8:42:06 PM
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Good question.
And I doubt he'll have a satisfactory answer.
I think if you look in the file "earth.h", you'll find that CONST CHAR[] TRUTH is defined in at least 10^42 places - and that doesn't even begin to address the number of places it's defined in "universe.h".
Even worse yet, different parts of the program use different #DEFINE values - so the value of TRUTH varies based on the thread ID, status, and data handled.
;-)
And you thought .DLL hell was bad...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #29,317
2/21/02 9:44:24 PM
2/21/02 9:46:33 PM
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Reminds me of an old joke...
Three accountants are interviewing for a job. The prospective employer ask each one, "what's two plus two?"... Okay, so you've heard it before.
Yeah, that's right, the one who gets the job answers, "what do you want it to be?".
I have a feeling that will be the answer to your question on truth as well. I understand your rationale for asking, maybe he'll bite, but there's really nothing to be gained here. The "truth" is a goal that we all strive for, but as you well know, the truth in history is that history is written by the conquerors, the educated, the random scraps of bs papers that survive the razing of the city-state...
Sorry in advance for interferring. Us leftest ideologues can't help but spoil the fun.
You're right, the more I think about it, I'd like to know what the "truth" is myself...
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
"All I want is the truth"
John Lennon
"Nietzsche has an S in it"
Celina Jones
Edited by screamer
Feb. 21, 2002, 09:46:33 PM EST
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Post #29,376
2/22/02 12:00:16 PM
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"Truth" with the big "T".
I have a feeling that will be the answer to your question on truth as well. I'm glad you're so in touch with your feelings. Or did you miss the "T" in "Truth"? Feel whatever you want to feel. We'll see what his answer is to that question. But I don't think he will answer that question. Why won't he answer it? Is it because he's afraid "The Truth" won't be able to stand on its own? Isn't it "The Truth" after all? Or are we discussing his opinions? I understand your rationale for asking, maybe he'll bite, but there's really nothing to be gained here. Sure there is. He can demonstrate how wrong I am and support his earlier statement. You remember the one? Allow me to re-quote it for you: When Leftists ideologues say there is no real truth, the truth itself becomes politicized. But remember, truth was here first. The "truth" is a goal that we all strive for, but as you well know, the truth in history is that history is written by the conquerors, the educated, the random scraps of bs papers that survive the razing of the city-state... I think you're confusing "Truth" with "stories". Many times, these "stories" are reported as "historical fact". But they are still "stories". He refered to "truth". He said the "truth" was here first. You're right, the more I think about it, I'd like to know what the "truth" is myself... Me too!
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Post #29,369
2/22/02 11:15:30 AM
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I don't play rigged games, so don't ask.
My position as to what is Truth, on various and sundry topics, is very much a matter of public record. Especially around these fora. But I can't seem to get a transmission through to planet Brandioch. Maybe it's being jammed by the incoherent static emanating from planet Ashton, or bounced around in the dim shades-of-greyness of the Silverlock nebula. But most likely it's the reality shield surrounding planet Brandioch.
Somehow I don't think the problem is at my end.
Truth is that which is the case. As opposed to that which is not the case. But it's no good saying that, because some people will turn around and ask what "is the case" means. Or what "is" means. As Dogbert once said, if there are no stupid questions, what sort of questions do stupid people ask?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
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Post #29,371
2/22/02 11:29:45 AM
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cop out
You say the truth is what you say, I agree with you sometimes disagree others, that is my truth there is no THE truth unless your heavily medicated which you have indicated you dont hold with.
thanx,
bill
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
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Post #29,373
2/22/02 11:41:58 AM
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Cop out yerself.
That's not your truth. That's your opinion. Against my opinion. But at least I make an effort to calibrate my opinion against reality. And that's how Truth gets into it.
What part of "Truth is that which is the case" don't you understand?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
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Post #29,379
2/22/02 12:22:42 PM
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facts/cases arnt truth
Anti Israeli/Pro Israeli both have facts/cases/truth and merit neither is the truth what part of objective dont you understand?
thanx,
bill
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
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Post #29,401
2/22/02 1:46:02 PM
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Well, facts sure as hell ain't falsehood.
If you don't start with facts, you're not going anywhere I'd want to go.
And judging from the results, the Israelis are far more in touch with reality than the Arabs. Truth is that which is the case, but the test of what is the case is what works. What the Israelis do works. They survive and prosper against overwhelming odds. What the Palestinians do just brings them more grief.
(And don't go claiming that Israel only survives because we meddling Americans prop it up. First off, the US has unwisely supported Arafat as well. Secondly, we propped up the Shah of Iran, and it didn't save his ass. We're not as good at propping regimes up as to make it a guarantor of survival. And if even if we were that good, it would mean that what America does works. Actually it does work, just not quite that well.)
If you have anything remotely resembling a point here, it's that both Arabs and Israelis are guilty of the fallacy of exclusion. (Certainly the Arabs are, at any rate.) But that's not a problem with facts. It's a problem with leaving facts out, and also with violating rules of inference. And if partial truth is bad, is even less truth going to be an improvement? How does that work?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes.
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Post #29,414
2/22/02 2:27:55 PM
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This just keeps getting better. :)
So, the "Truth" is the "Truth". But the "Truth" on Monday might not be the "Truth" on Friday. (from your other post). .....but the test of what is the case is what works. So, what works in one situation is the "Truth", but in another situation, there could be a different "Truth"? In other words, whatever is successful is "Truth" to you. So, when Clinton beat Bush and then was elected for a second term, Clinton had the "Truth"?
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Post #29,374
2/22/02 11:45:12 AM
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Thank you, God.
My position as to what is Truth, on various and sundry topics, is very much a matter of public record. So, your opinion on a subject is "The Truth" about that subject. Hmmmmm, I do believe that is a functional definition of "God". Truth is that which is the case. No argument there. And 1 + 1 = 2. I didn't ask you to define "truth". I asked what the "Truth" is, accourding to you. As opposed to that which is not the case. Again, no argument. But you still haven't told me what the "Truth" is. You've just defined what "truth" is and what "truth" is not. But it's no good saying that, because some people will turn around and ask what "is the case" means. No. Just what the "Truth" is. Phrase it however you want to. Or what "is" means. It would seem to me that this is EXACTLY what you are doing right now. You are focusing on the definitions of the words rather than answering the question. But I expected such bullshit from you. In summary, Marlowe hasn't got a clue what "The Truth" is. He has his opinions and he supports those opinions by stating that they are "The Truth". Which is no support at all. Sorry, Marlowe, you lose.
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Post #30,459
3/2/02 10:29:22 AM
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Marlowe is quoting:
die Welt is alles was der Fall ist.
Brandioch, it's you who's ducking and weaving. Wittgenstein's comment has a resonance in German that's hard to translate into English; Germans don't need Murphy, they have falls ist. Marlowe's version is about as good as any, and better than some, as translations go.
Capitalizing "Truth" into existentialism serves no purpose bar providing you with a strawman to sneer at. Yes, truth is sometimes different at different times, because die Welt does change as time passes; entropy, if nothing else.
As for Russian -- in point of actual fact, pravda does not mean "truth" as we use the word, to mean a point-to-point correspondence with the objective Universe. When a Russian wants to use that concept (not often) the word is instinye, as in ve istinye tak "You got that right, dude!" Pravda is more closely related to "approved", as in "the officially approved version". Your rants, and some of Ashton's, are more pravlino than anything else.
Regards,
Ric
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Post #30,490
3/2/02 7:07:05 PM
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However the world changes,
there are ever those who claim accessibility of ~an unvarying Truth (or via lots of other symbols) - and they speak with certainty or Certainty of that accomplishment.
Such ones are - lawful prey. (Even when not overtly arrogant; certainly more fun.. when they are).
I'll ask my friend about the nuances of pravda (think you're right on that one, from previous conversations). 'Istinye' - don't know nada.
Now as to Wittgenstein - hey! a friend wrote his thesis on W. So you grok to fullness on W., do you? Recall his take on the maya ? ;-)
Ashton
Morphological Rants to Order
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Post #29,450
2/22/02 8:12:18 PM
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Tautologies - don't leave home without a handful, especially
when your solipsism has ID'd *YOU* as the sole earthly repository! of
The Truth
Poor baby; just can't cope? in an unCertain world? Yeah, it's tough. {sniff}
Would that you'd submit these Rilly-New Testament Revelations for a grade in Phil. 101A (or better yet, Aberrant Psych. 202B).
Megalomania just somehow never quiiite comes up to Expectations, after the incense fumes drift away, and Avatar Marlowe just doesn't quite.....
ring True.
Olde English Prayer, as apt today as well as... at the next Inquisition -
Dear Lord, please protect me from the wrath of Those who Know..
{shudder}
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