Toliet paper to some

Post #28,178 by nking 2/12/02 9:23:46 PM Reply	Toliet paper to some sheepskin to others. People who usually put a value on a degree already have one. I had a friend of mine who went to work for a local beer company, he lied and said he had a Comp Sci BS from UMR. He was able to do the job, and did better than the others. Then his boss contacted UMR to get a yearbook copy for him as a gift for doing such a good job, only to disocver that he never went to UMR or graduated. So he fired my friend for lying on the job application. If he told the truth and said he didn't have a degree, he wouldn't have gotten the job. The other workers who had Compm Sci BS degrees didn't do as well a job as he did and needed help and training to just get by. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #28,244 by bepatient 2/13/02 11:44:53 AM Reply	Sorry to hear that. But lying on an application is an offense that warrants firing. It says so right on the application. At least on ours it does. I'm sure it does on the AB application as well. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #28,310 by nking 2/13/02 10:35:14 PM Reply	While that is true that it does warrant firing, it does not change the fact that he was able to do the job without a degree and was able to do it better than people with a degree. Which proves my point that a degree doesn't always mean that someone is qualified for a job or not. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #28,324 by bepatient 2/14/02 12:53:05 AM Reply	I agree with your point. Experience matters more. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #28,332 by wharris2 2/14/02 7:35:34 AM Reply	Experience matters, but so does integrity. If you outright lie on your application, what else might you be dishonest about? A little self-promotion on a resume is pretty much expected - who else is going to hype you if you don't? But claiming a degree or two (without actually having it) is a bit much. Out of curiosity, how often do employers request and get college transcripts and stuff like that when hiring? Notre Dame certainly would have avoided a lot of embarrassment if they'd done that with George O'Leary. From the press release: I understand that these inaccuracies represent a very human failing, nonetheless, they constitute a breach of trust that makes it impossible for us to go forward with our relationship." That breach of trust may be more important to a religious institution like Notre Dame, but it is also present to some degree in any employer-employee relationship. Back to the topic, Derek Smart may or may not (probably doesn't) have a PhD in anything. His track record with Battlecruiser 3000 is not particularly impressive - he's been developing the damn game for almost ten years. The proof is in the pudding - he's lied about himself and hasn't delivered. (Although I will grant that according to reviews the latest release seems to be somewhat playable.) Most of the work of government does not need to be done. - Attributed to Ronald Reagan, under whose administration the government expanded, of course.
Post #28,340 by pwhysall 2/14/02 8:51:52 AM Reply	Battlecruiser Millennium It sucks, scoring a feeble 5 out of 10 in the UK games magazine PC Zone. Choice quotes: "The problem is the game itself. For a start it's bugged to hell. It took me about two days just to get the game to work for more than 20 minutes at a time without crashing back to Windows. If you can get past the bugs you soon see that while the potential for a mammoth game is there, the actual implementation \ufffd not to put too fine a point on it \ufffd sucks." "Battlecruiser's biggest problem lies with Derek Smart himself. Several years ago the man had the kernel of a good idea, a plan to out-Elite Elite, to out-Wing Command Wing Commander, to out-Imperium Galactica... (we get the idea \ufffd Ed.). The only trouble was Smart wasn't quite as up to the task as he has led himself to believe. Smart often boasts about the fact that his is a fully independent company, not beholden to publisher demands. However, one of the benefits of having a publisher can be the feedback that comes with the territory \ufffd developers often get too close to their products and can't see the flaws. Unfortunately, Smart simply hasn't taken on board anyone else's opinion or criticism and the game suffers as a result. Hence Battlecruiser comes off looking ill-thought-through, amateurishly coded and riddled with holes." Now, this could be horseshit (my idea of a deep and cerebral game is Serious Sam played on the "Serious" skill level) but I've read too much elsewhere about this guy and his software to completely discard it. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #28,435 by nking 2/14/02 11:28:13 PM Reply	Question for you: What happens when an employer lies to you, or raises the requirements for the same job after a few years? How about employers that lied to the government about qualified IT workers so they could raise the H1B Visa quotas? How about my former employer that lied to me, kept breaking promises, and eventually lied about my performance review just to get rid of me? The job in 1997 required a two year degree and 3+ years experience, and in 2002 now requires a four year degree and 5+ years experience for the same job for less pay. Explain that? They wonder why in four months that they haven't gotten anybody to replace me despite the surplus of IT workers in the job market? "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #28,453 by wharris2 2/15/02 5:41:18 AM 2/15/02 5:57:24 AM Reply	Short answer: It's a two-way street Longer answer. Just as an employee owes his employer honesty (and note there are laws governing what an employer can ask an employee - honesty does not necessary imply full disclosure of everything there is to know), so does an employer owe its employees reasonable honesty. Trade secrets, access to computers or resources - sure, an employer can legitimately deny their employees or prospective employees a lot of information. But they, too, have an obligation to be truthful and forthright about their dealings. Changes in the business environment can change the circumstances of an employer-employee relationship, that's understandable. (The company I'm with has reduced it's 401K matching because of some belt-tightening, but they've said so up-front.) But lies and misrepresentations on their part are at least as much reprehensible as an employee lie or misrepresentation, and probably moreso, in that their statements and representations effect more people. In cases where they can't or shouldn't answer, they should say so rather than give an evasive or false answer. Enron is going to be a classic example of this; while the company president was hyping the company stock, and in his position he full well should have known the company was going down the tubes, dozens of top managers were making millions selling it off. An employee working for a lying scumbag of an employer really doesn't owe them anything, but if for no other reason than personal integrity should still be honest with whoever he reports to or associates with. You might be fired on the spot for telling the company president that the project that he wanted done in three weeks was not done and couldn't be done in that time (I once came perilously close to that - a really stupid "got to have a feature our competitor has and got to have it now" project), but if I ever have a management position I'd prefer to hear the truth rather than some squishy syncopathic suckup job. (The company president actually got beet-red in the face and stormed out of the meeting, virtual thunderclouds over his head - I guess the director of development managed to calm him down a bit before I was called on the carpet.) But that's me, and that may be why I don't have or don't particularly want a management position. Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt, from his Recluse series Edited by wharris2 Feb. 15, 2002, 05:57:24 AM EST Expand All History
Post #28,484 by nking 2/15/02 10:04:33 AM Reply	Well I had been lied to They made me a lot of promises and broke them. I was to become their web master, and then someone else got that position. They promised it to me first. They promised me DBA training and make me the DBA if I stayed for six more months, I did, and they decided not to give it to me. Then later on they gave the DBA position to a workstation technician that barely knew how to make a SQL statement. I was promised a project leader job if I got the docket calendar finished on time. I did, and I didn't get the job, a coworker got it and then quit the job a few weeks after getting it. I was sick, and I documented it, and had notes from my doctor that I gave the IT secretary who gave them to HR, yet HR had no record of my doctor's notes and counted the sick days against me on my review. So was my employer honest with me? Did they keep their promises? Or did they just use those empty promises to keep me working there until I could finish projects that they wanted done sooner than possible? "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."

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