Great. So starvation and plague is mandatory.

Post #266,131

8/28/06 4:04:14 PM

And our 'great' economy can only take care of the wealthy. These 'entitlements' are NOT luxuries for the bulk of the people.

What you are saying is, we're doomed, and that revolution and death is coming.

Remember this; starving and hopeless people are NOT nice. When the choices are plague and/or famine and fighting for relief, the American people are not likely to sit in their homes and quietly let family members suffer and die. The wealthy simply don't want to see this reality; it's not PERSONAL for them. They see what they want to see - and what they see is that concentrating wealth at the top, in their own hands, is a moral act that helps the lower classes. You know - like the slaveholders putting slaves in poorly made, drafty housing because it was somehow 'good for' tuberculosis.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #266,136

by Another Scott

8/28/06 4:16:56 PM

There's another way.

If Social Security and Medicare were treated as a safety net rather than part of everyone's retirement, then the problem would be a lot smaller.

Of course, the problem would be a lot smaller too if everyone didn't live so long. If/when our population stabilizes, it should become more managable if people can and do work a substantial portion of their lives. The American Dream of retiring at 65 and living to be 90 isn't economically sustainable under the present system.

There's a fundamental unfairness about the taxation of the present system. There should be more means-testing and the taxable income cap should be raised if they really want to get the system under control. As it is, I think we all know that nothing will be done unless there's a crisis, and when that crisis comes there will probably be a lot of other problems that have to be dealt with, so even then I wouldn't expect big changes.

A solution that may present itself, and one that doesn't have as much risk politically (compared to overt cuts or overt tax increases) is: They decide to end automatic COLAs, and inflation is allowed to go to 7-10+% again, then that 20-30 year problem suddenly starts to look like less of a problem (future dollars are much cheaper). Of course, it would be a disaster for the economy, but hey...

:-(

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #266,140

by bepatient

8/28/06 4:27:17 PM

It has nothing to do with class

Rich people are not causing it to happen. The wealthy can take care of themselves (and can't opt out of these mandatory government payments, even if they wanted).

Concentration of wealth is a separate issue. Not as disastrous to the economy as much as it is an issue of social divisiveness.

Modifications must be made. If their not, they we will be dealing with those "not nice" starving and hopeless people.

I can only tell you that I have not, at any time, expected to receive anything from SS or Medicare. I have expected it to collapse and have made all my retirement plans accordingly.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}

Post #266,145

by imric

8/28/06 4:44:22 PM

Oh, aye.

They are not causing SS to have a limited lifespan - but they ARE straining the social fabric of this country by actively concentrating all money at 'the top'. The poor do NOT have the discretionary cash to put away enough to live at even poverty levels after they 'retire'/become unemployable. The wealthy DO. Lessee - who are gung-ho about scrapping (not revamping, not making ancillary) sabotaging or raiding SS? Let me give you a hint: it AIN'T the poor. No, the poor aren't hungry enough to COMPLETELY suicide in their old age for 'bread today'. Not yet.

Not YET.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #266,154

by bepatient

8/28/06 5:07:45 PM

Regardless of who is trying to "insert your verb here"

this doesn't change the simple fact that, in current form, SS will not survive.

Scrap it or fix it are the options.

And as I said, the wealthy, who don't need it, can't opt out of the benefits. >that in itself< would be a start.

Changing the funding structure would also be necessary. Investing in something that compounds the growth at more than 2% is necessary...or it will die.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}

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