Post #257,037
5/28/06 9:30:51 PM
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Covenant churches begin playing for keeps
[link|http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2013910&page=1|ABC News] A female member of the Watermark Community Church, a non-denominational evangelical church in Dallas, Texas, reached out to her pastor after her husband had an alleged affair with another woman.
But when the husband, identified only as "John Doe," failed to reconcile with his wife, he said the church's minister, Todd Wagner, shamed him from the pulpit.
And the minister didn't stop there. When the husband tried to resign from the church, Wagner allegedly threatened to mail a dozen letters \ufffd half to Watermark Community Church members and the other half to members of other churches who know and have worked with John Doe \ufffd detailing the alleged affair. Over in Lancaster there where a lot of very strict churches, but I never heard of one going further then expelling somebody that broke the rules. And they where well known for the 'you can't leave the church, but if you don't show up for a couple of weeks we will expel you' game. This church is both trying to publicly enforce their rules and refuse the person the right to leave the church on the grounds they signed a covenant. And since this is in Texas, there are already legal groups jumping in to protect the church's freedom to abuse it's members however it wants, no matter what the members want. Personally I find covenant churches very worrisome, since if they didn't intend to violate a persons rights at some level there would be no reason for the covenant. It's rather like the lawyer who tells you that something is meaningless legal jumbo, and that you should go ahead and sign it without reading it. That makes me all the more nervious and determined to read it. Jay
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Post #257,058
5/29/06 6:42:56 AM
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Open ended contract with no resignation clause?
Such covenants are a new concept for me. I've heard of tithes but I thought churches didn't uses formal contracts.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #257,061
5/29/06 9:09:56 AM
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A *new* concept? Sounds just like the old one,..
.., you know, "indentured servitude".
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105|Mr. Hat]
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Post #257,064
5/29/06 11:32:35 AM
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It is a fringe thing that is spreading
Until recently covenant churches, and the related covenant marriages, was a fringe thing. But it seems to be both spreading and people are getting more serious about enforcing the covenant.
I really have no idea of the history of covenants in the church. And it's hard to see casually because there are a lot of churches that use the word covenant in something other then the litteral contract sense. But from what I have read until the 90's it was something that turned up only in small cult churches lead by a single radical preacher.
Now however it seems to have turned into a movement of sorts. Covenant marriage in particular has gone much further, to the point of being legally recognized in some states.
Jay
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Post #257,159
5/30/06 10:11:58 AM
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its a gang, works like any other kind of gang
if you laugh your ass off at peer preassure there is nothing they can do to you.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,162
5/30/06 10:26:38 AM
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They're shooting themselves in the foot
There are already debates over tax-exempt status for churches, based on how much some of them look like political organizations. How long until [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest-penitent_privilege|clergy privelege] is questioned? Once you point out that they're willing to threaten disclosure to the congretation, I imagine the court will decide there's no expectation of privacy.
The legal protections churches enjoy were developed based on how churches behaved. If they decide to behave like something else, they should expect to lose some of those protections.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #257,163
5/30/06 10:38:10 AM
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Under THIS administration?
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #257,165
5/30/06 10:59:04 AM
5/30/06 10:59:58 AM
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They didn't appoint *all* the judges
Besides, eventually the "real" churches are going to stand up and say, "Hold on, they don't speak for us."
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
May 30, 2006, 10:59:58 AM EDT
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Post #257,450
6/1/06 1:51:46 PM
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And this differs from Scientology how?
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
— Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
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Post #257,451
6/1/06 1:55:10 PM
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They've got JESUS!
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #257,452
6/1/06 1:58:27 PM
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dont forget season passes
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,455
6/1/06 2:09:36 PM
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And really great Holidays!
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Post #257,457
6/1/06 2:11:54 PM
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I suppose you've got a point...
...It's hard to celebrate the resurrection of the E-meter....
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
— Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
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Post #257,459
6/1/06 2:19:19 PM
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its a haying on of plans
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,463
6/1/06 2:29:32 PM
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Scientologists at the market.
The local farmer's market has a "certified" section for produce growers and an "uncertified" section for anyone, and of course the Scientologits are always there with their E-Meter.
They asked me "Would you like a free personality evaluation?"
I replied, "No way, I know what that thing is, it's a Thetan Injector. It'll stick thetans on me and then you'll charge me thousands of dollars to get rid of them".
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #257,469
6/1/06 2:38:56 PM
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gotta remember that one, goodun
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,470
6/1/06 2:39:22 PM
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another one is "no thanks Im clear"
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,471
6/1/06 2:40:58 PM
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Confused
Does the "certified" vs. "uncertified" produce have anything to do with Scientology? Or is that just where they happened to be standing? Why would they "of course" be there with the E-Meter?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #257,474
6/1/06 2:59:34 PM
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they are infested with emeters
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #257,475
6/1/06 3:15:02 PM
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The certified section . . .
. . is open only to produce growers who are certified to be selling only stuff they grew themselves. The uncertified section is sort of a mini fair open to anyone to sell anything, including politics and religion.
The Scientologists are there "of course" because Los Angeles is the heart and center of Scientology - the place just swarms with the poor suckers. They never miss an opportunity to set up a booth and an E-Meter to attract more poor suckers.
A number of scientologist have me maintain their computers, I suppose because I'm willing to treat weirdos like humans, so I see a lot of their documents just in the line of work. They are not happy folks. All their documents seem to be complaints about each other, general bickering, appeals to authority to punish each other and complaints that official protocols are not being followed.
These folks really do have severe body thetan problems and they are not getting clear no matter how much they're paying.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #257,477
6/1/06 3:48:42 PM
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LA is just a subsiduary to clearwater FL
the hard core groupies are there in force. Nice enough folks as long as you dont get between them and a dollar bill. Hmmm, just like Canadians.....
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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