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New water has memory
[link|http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/16739_water.html|http://english.pravd.../16739_water.html]
Russian scientists are among the leaders. In 2003 at the Institute of Biomedical Problems of the Russian Academy of Sciences Russian scientist Stanislav Zenin upheld a thesis on water's memory. The thesis' author owns a laboratory and studied clathrates, stable compounds (that can live up to several hours!) consisting of 912 water molecules of half-micron or micron in size. You can even see them through the phase-contrast microscope. Clathrates are almost electrically neutral in distilled water. However, Zenin found out that their electroconductivity could be changed. Bonds between the clathrates' elements can be broken with the magnetic stirrer and then water becomes dead and unordered mixture. If a tiny amount (even one molecule) of any other substance is added into water clathrates start "adopting" its electromagnetic properties. In the end Zenin engaged psychics and healers - people who do not enjoy respect in the world of science - in his work on thesis. He found out that some representatives of this dubious occupation can change water's electroconductivity drastically with the power of their thought. Zenin defined water as substance in phase-informative state with a structure suitable for data storage. He called it a biological information tank. He distinguished water's primary and long-term memory. Primary memory becomes apparent after a single impact. It is a reversible change in water's structure and a reflection of the new electromagnetic picture on clathrates' surface. As for the long-term memory, it is a complete transformation of the matrix clathrates' structural elements as a result of long information influence. This means that you do not have to be a psychic to form a certain structure of water. It is enough to pass a certain emotion to water for some period of time.
no more pissing in streams,
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Pictures of models of molecules here.
[link|http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/abstrct.html|The Structure of Liquid Water: Overview].

Dunno if there's anything to it though. Some of these things apparently have been formed in controlled conditions, but who knows if they can be observed in Nature.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Right before I left Russia
a "healer" by the name of Chumak was "charging" water with positive influences through TV. All you needed to do was to place a jug of water next to your screen.

On the other hand, my wife uses a homeopatic medecine for ADD which boasts dilution ratio orders of magnitude higher than Avogardo Number. And it most certainly works.

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179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New What's the ADD med?
Can you share?
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
New Yes, I'd be interested too.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Attention deficit disorder

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179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New Not "mean". Medication.
New I'm curious what it is being diluted WITH :-)
/me whispers placebo effect.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Yup.
#1 and #4 in [link|http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600|13 Things That Do Not Make Sense].

Cheers,
Scott.
New Distilled water - always carefully distilled water.
Because they cannot be explained in alopathic terms, official medicine categorizes all homeopathic successes as "hearsay". A perfect example of "proving" something invalid because the terms you have chosen for the proof are inadequate.

While a "placebo effect" is possible - if you strain a bit, it's been a pretty successful placebo effect over the years, and that's just as good as being able to explain it.

I prefer to consider homeopathy the "quantum physics of medicine". Outrageous and absurd in conventional terms, but if it works, use it.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New The claims are testable
We don't have to be able to explain something to be able to test it.

As for the placebo effect, I've often commented that I'm amazed that doctors don't study how to maximize its effects. Rather than just trying to avoid it.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Perhaps they are afraid they'll come up . . .
. . with the wrong answers and look like fools to their peers?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New More likely, they'll come up. . .
. . . with something that will be as effective, but cost something like 1/10,000th of the cost to produce.

I understand that, as late as the late 1920's and early 1930's, homeopathic and alopathic medicine were taught side-by-side in all our prestigous medical schools. The reason that homeopathy was stopped is that the (alopathic) pharma companies started to make large donation to the schools (it was the Depression, after all), and "persuaded" said medical schools to drop representation of homeopathic medicine as safe and effective. After 3 or 4 generations, I'd say the strategy worked quite well, wouldn't you?
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Expand Edited by jb4 Feb. 9, 2006, 10:57:36 AM EST
New Here's one:
[link|http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060206233120.htm|http://www.scienceda.../060206233120.htm]

"These findings suggest that the medical ritual of a device can deliver an enhanced placebo effect beyond that of a placebo pill. There are many conditions in which ritual is irrelevant when compared with drugs, such as in treatment of a bacterial infection," said Kaptchuk, "but the other extreme may also be true. In some cases, the ritual may be the critical component."
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Homeopathy: Been there, tested it, it doesn't work.
Always fails in double-blind tests. It's like dowsing in that respect; very successful until the practitioners are not allowed to control the testing.

But hey, if spending lots of money on sugar pills and distilled water is what makes you better, knock yourself out.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Reductio ad simplicissimus, perhaps?
In the spirit of Opposites -->|<-- Attract:
the flip side of Heads: I Believe; Tails: I Disbelieve

(A sample not susceptible of the famous placebo effect)
Can only report, from a local animal rescue place (which takes in older, often abandoned critters of all sorts, some with odd diseases) this excerpt from a missive urging support for a homeo- oriented piece of legislation:
Many of you will know of, or have met first hand, some of the "BrightHaven miracles of homeopathic healing" over the years: "Frazier" being our most recent example of course....!!!
And.. since these are neither zealots nor evangelists for any particular healing approach (employing - depending on the case - anything from antibiotics to Feldenkrais to other natural approaches ... to homeopathy) my impression has been that they take decent data and transcribe same, now over many hundreds of individuals; have no trouble with Boolean deductions -- and have kept some debilitated critters alive for many years.

(Frazier is a cat; happen to have seen the poor sucker early-on; gave him a couple days to live - I thought.)

Anyway.. I've mentioned here before the hardest parts to grok, of Hahnemann's hypotheses (about "Likes curing Likes"), and I do recall that he comprehended physics too - so the mysteries of dividing by Avogadro's number would not have mystified the originator of Homeopathy. And we've had the placebo discussions. And there are numerous folk who would atttest to the results in their specific cases yada yada + the nay-sayers (both among those who merely read/dismissed -and- those who tried/still-sick. Diagnosis: wrong? then stuff doesn't work.)

I remain agnostic, though with one insignificant personal 'trial' - which succeeded. Then, some months later I negated that result by taking the ID'd counterindicated substance (just for fun with the Gawd of Science) -- and, the symptoms returned, within hours. Etc.



All I ever steadfastly maintain, is:
that with regard to the human body and its umm algorithms, as of of '06
We Still Don't Know Shit -
however earnestly doth the purveyor of this and that, protest the efficacy of his \ufffd nostrums du jour. Allopathic medicine (by definition) treats ie suppresses symptoms (to what complex effect, we have little idea.) Cure?? is a horse of another color - and it's still galloping, freighted with the outraged cries of countless of Those Who Know and those who sell, cha cha




Patience and tranquility of mind contribute more to cure our distempers as the whole art of medicine.
-- Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

(Who, alas, died at 35 of some local plague; controversy forever unabated.)

This little quote resides over my monitor. It possesses magical powers.
New so I guess your wife didnt study here
[link|http://www.suncoasthealthcare.com/education/index.asp|http://www.suncoasth...ucation/index.asp]
there is a sign around here somewhere :-)
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Sugar water
And you know - placebo or otherwise - it works. Just as long as it's working, and has no side effects - I don't care how it works. Let MDs decide.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

     water has memory - (boxley) - (17)
         Pictures of models of molecules here. - (Another Scott)
         Right before I left Russia - (Arkadiy) - (15)
             What's the ADD med? - (Steve Lowe) - (3)
                 Yes, I'd be interested too. -NT - (jake123)
                 Attention deficit disorder -NT - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                     Not "mean". Medication. -NT - (broomberg)
             I'm curious what it is being diluted WITH :-) - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                 Yup. - (Another Scott)
                 Distilled water - always carefully distilled water. - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                     The claims are testable - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                         Perhaps they are afraid they'll come up . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                             More likely, they'll come up. . . - (jb4)
                         Here's one: - (admin)
                     Homeopathy: Been there, tested it, it doesn't work. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                         Reductio ad simplicissimus, perhaps? - (Ashton)
                 so I guess your wife didnt study here - (boxley)
                 Sugar water - (Arkadiy)

Man, what a sad thing to be known for...
81 ms