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New Once again, the Corps are winning.
[link|http://news.iwon.com/home/health/health_article/0,11720,505495|01-11-2002::06:00,00.html|Disabled May Face Bigger Workplace Hurdles]

[link|http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/09/MN100296.DTL|Court ruling limits disabilities law]


Apparently if you hurt yourself in the duty of doing your job, your employer can p*ss all over you or fire you for not being able to do your job. Unless you are seriously disabled like in a wheelchair? I wonder if they even cover being blind or breaking a leg or arm? Type with that other arm, Norm, we don't care if you broke it falling down the stairs because some manager shoved you out of the way. Type, dammit, type, and write us some more programs!

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
New they already won, saw the trailers for rollerball :(
In the original GREAT movie it wuz bucking the worldwide corporations that got the game a little deadly, since the corps have the sqeeze on they lay all the blame on a crazed promoter in the new one. Next watch for a remake of the running man with only the local tv station doing all of the damage.
thanx,
bill
My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
New Quit obsessing over this
What was happening was that the lawyers were trying, via case law, to set up any incapability as a "disability". I need trifocals; do I get the support of the ADA to go into engraving, which requires very fine vision, and then get my new employer to buy special equipment so I can see what I am doing? And probably displace a previously-qualified individual who can see? In short, do we convert 90% of the parking places in the United States to "handicapped only"? The woman in the case was too short to do the job properly. They offered her a job she could do, at the same or better pay, and she refused. Looking over the case, the only way to satisfy her would be to make the roofs of the cars lower down -- I'm 5'7", so I could probably drive a car that was only 3.5' high or so, but you six-footers would be in trouble.

I, personally, already know a fair number of people who are getting disability preferences for things that could be handled with either different jobs, equally or better paid, or don't justify the preferences -- I know one woman who gets disability plates and several hundred a month because she's too fat; the notion of not snacking on an entire one-pound bag of potato chips with butter and salt on them before eating a dinner I couldn't choke down is just too *ahem* restrictive, eh? Such cases suck up the money and resources that could be used to support people with real disabilities that aren't their fault, including carpal tunnel and the rest of them, and throw the whole idea into the "ridiculous" bin, so that support for it goes away when it's needed.

The Supremes did this one right.
Regards,
Ric
New I was obsessing over a screwed remake not disability! :)
My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
New Careful Rick, comes close to 'welfare queens' -
that FUD-invention of the moneyed class, frequently dropped into all questions about 'assistance' to anyone. EZ: portray 'em all as bein as greedy as Corporate. Works on the unwashed, too. (Hey.. what if they're gettin More than *I Get* !!)

I doubt anyone would argue much about the absurdity of the cases you cite, still - personally I don't know what it might be like to be toxically obese, nor whether it can be dismissed as merely - undisciplined self-gratification (?) in all cases. As usual the lore on such matters is AMA-grade ergo FUBAR.

(Like the many contradictory recommendations about burns, through the decades.. in hindsight, each one so poorly thought out as to be laughable.)

All I mean is - there are always scams to be found, and in the present environment of 'blame it on The War' - we'd damn well best be paying attention to how many Corp-friendly new Millennium Patriot Laws are added.. to the already egregious ones.

I've seen some pretty ergonomic-deadly jobs, exemplified by Mr. Chaplin in Modern Times.. Hmmm - maybe a Corporate training film? (After all, most of those droids only understand visuals anyway). And golf.



Yours for Better Corporate Reeducation,

Ashton fairwitness
(Soylent Green for those who flunk the course)
No, not what they get to eat: what they become.
New The disabled
Some people get the "fat" gene and no matter how little they eat, they still get fat. When it gets over 300 pounds, it is hard to control. They run the risk of a heart attack or stroke because their blood pressure usually shoots up. I have a friend like that, he had a heart attack before he was 30. He applied for disability and was turned down. His legs got messed up from the extra weight, he had problems breathing and had a traceonomy done to his neck to breathe better, he had sinus problems, etc. His father was exposed to Agent Orange, and as a result he got overweight despite having a normal diet and regular exercise. His parents are thin, as is his sister that was born before his father was exposed to agent orange. The gov has tried to screw him and his father out of benefits. He currently works as a bouncer for $5.50/hr and has asked me to join him. Because of his weight, and race, he gets rejected by employers for computer jobs. He is African-American, by the way, if that matters to anyone.

Despite his disability he has supported his sister and mother as they went through college. But it has taken its toll on him recently as he had a heart attack.

But oh, the standard stereotyping of fat people continues. They must be lazy because they are fat. They must be stupid because they are fat. They must be gluttons because they are fat, eating a pound of patato chips and drinking 6 liters of Pepsi a day. I have a friend that has Diabeties and eats 3 to 5 times more food than I do, and he remains thin and in shape. For some reason he has a high metabolism, eats like Elvis did, but burns it all off. Life isn't fair, is it?

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
New Obesity
Yes, I know people in that category -- obese for medical reasons. The woman I was referring to has no such problems; she just eats. Possibly it's psychological, although I'm extremely wary of that. And yes, I'm thin, though my wife is not (and doesn't really eat all that much).

Regardless of how you frame the setup, if there's free money (or free power) going, you're going to get people doing scams to grab a chunk thereof. Welfare queens do exist (or did). I absolutely agree that their existence is not a reason to end public assistance for the needy; they represent an inefficiency, not a fundamental problem -- an analogue of friction, perhaps. In fact, I've argued in the past that we really ought to ignore them other than trying to catch and eliminate them; the Draconian measures taken to eliminate "welfare queens" make the legitimate uses of welfare more difficult.

But the disability business is different. The way the case law related to disability was going, almost everybody would be "disabled" one way or another. It might even be true -- but if disabled people are going to get special measures taken to help them, and Government payments based on disability, they have to remain a minority. Sounds like a truism, but not to a lawyer trying to get the down payment for a new Lexus.

I'm not a lawyer; several acquaintances are, and watched this case with interest. The sense I get is that the Supremes drew the decision quite narrowly, focussing on differentiating between normal variations in ability -- some people are short, some need glasses, some are stronger than others, etc. etc. -- and true cases where something happened to reduce the person's capability. A person who's too short to do the job properly isn't "disabled" in my book. OTOH perhaps I should be supporting the notion. After all, I'm only 5'7"; why should all those tall people get those lovely NBA salaries, and I don't? Clearly I deserve a disability check every month!
Regards,
Ric
New Oh yeah?
What if the employer only wants 6" or taller, blonde hair, and blue eyes for the job of working the registers or waiting tables? They get rid of people for being too short, not blonde, no blue eyes, or not looking like a European? Or how about you cannot do the job because of your age, as they only want to attract the younger customer (teenagers, young adults, etc) and require that their staff all be the same age as their customers?

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
New Don't conflate cases.
The examples you cite are discriminatory, not disabilities. And in many cases I'm not totally sure I'm ready to call them illegal -- comfort is having a beer when I want one; luxury is having a pretty girl bring it to me :-)

I'm not likely to be hired to wait tables at Hooters', and that's as it should be (not enough experience (-; ) The question is what's relevant to job performance. Neither Peter nor Ashton is likely to get many tips as a stripper, nor am I; valid discrimination? Or not? I'm not tall enough to be an NBA player, not strong enough or big enough for NFL football -- am I disabled, discriminated against, or simply not qualified?

I repeat: there's free money going, and people are trying to scam it. If that's allowed to continue, it causes a real problem, because our legal system is based on precedent. The precedent this case was trying to squash was DISABILITY := ! QUALIFIED. If that continues, eventually you get the situation where everybody, or almost everybody, is defined as "disabled" or "discriminated against". No matter how rich our society may be or become, people who get compensation for either disability or discrimination have to remain a minority, or the whole system falls down in flames and nobody gets anything.

There are people with real problems, from situations like Christopher Reeve without the movie money to hands bit off by machinery and truck drivers with back problems. They need help. If the funds for that help get scammed off by freeloaders, that help won't be forthcoming.
Regards,
Ric
New How about we sue fast food joints
for cloging our colons? If they can sue tobacco comoanies why not fast food companies? The fast food companies do not put warnings on their products that they can cause hardened arteries, or colon problems, or give you high cholesteral if you include them in your diet.

30+ years of Big Mac and Whoopers, my colon is clogged, I want money for my pain! :)

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
New Agree re 'friction' in the system.
Often it seems that 'we' are much more focussed upon judgments First.. Agree also that the math is important. Once the real frauds are reduced to some acceptable level - just get on with it.

Unfortunately, lots of folks with scripture-guidance (a majority if one believes what they tell pollsters) - omit reading such juicy bits as, judge not lest ye be.. and that other one, vengeance is Mine! saith..

My view is that - the scurrilous example of Billy n'Bally, the rush by many bizness types to emulate them in Machiavellian ruthlessness - has led to a noticeable increase in cynicism all around (logically - since it is more justified now).

Fallout from this is.. the kinds of crap Bill C. put his imprimatur on - in the last 'welfare' rewriting; getting single mothers back to 'work' at min. wage and with no benefits.. as their unsupervised tykes learn how to listen to Cop-killing, bitch-slapping rappers - to form their social awareness.

Another crap shoot. Nobody has time to do much more than fill some Corp cubicle 50 weeks a year. We all live in the overall result. No 'solutions' in sight..


Ashton
New Obese/med
I'm skeptical of obesity for medical reasons; if you don't eat, you can't possibly gain or maintain weight. (Note that I am overweight; I just eat too damn much.)
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
New Slow metabolism vs fast
I know a few people who eat less than a normal person but are over 300 lbs and cant easily lose the weight. Some body types are more genetically inclined to store fat. An example of this is 2 cousins, The Rock and Rakishi, both share the same grandfather but have 2 distinct body types. Rock's metabolism runs faster than rakeshi's.
thanx,
bill
My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
New This is true
when I eat with friends, they always wonder why I eat so little yet I remain overweight. Also I think that while people like me age, the metabolism slows down.

I tried working out for a year, I didn't lose any weight, I gained, but it was muscle weight, the fat remained. I couldn't get rid of it. I worked out every day on Nautilus machines at a local college where I was a student.

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
New Eating Disorders
It most likely is mental then. She has a mental problem that makes her eat a lot. Verses other women who have eating disorders that make them eat too little, or eat a lot and then vomit it up. She should seek professional help for that eating disorder.

"In order to completely solve a problem, you must make sure that the root of the problem is completely removed! If you leave the root, the problem will come back later to get you." - Norman King
     Once again, the Corps are winning. - (nking) - (14)
         they already won, saw the trailers for rollerball :( - (boxley) - (13)
             Quit obsessing over this - (Ric Locke) - (12)
                 I was obsessing over a screwed remake not disability! :) -NT - (boxley)
                 Careful Rick, comes close to 'welfare queens' - - (Ashton) - (10)
                     The disabled - (nking) - (9)
                         Obesity - (Ric Locke) - (8)
                             Oh yeah? - (nking) - (3)
                                 Don't conflate cases. - (Ric Locke) - (2)
                                     How about we sue fast food joints - (nking)
                                     Agree re 'friction' in the system. - (Ashton)
                             Obese/med - (wharris2) - (2)
                                 Slow metabolism vs fast - (boxley) - (1)
                                     This is true - (nking)
                             Eating Disorders - (nking)

I'm gonna grab you by your Supercut and shake you like a fresh glowstick!
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