and still more hearts, minds forever ours!

US soldiers in Afghanistan burnt the bodies of dead Taliban and taunted their opponents about the corpses, in an act deeply offensive to Muslims and in breach of the Geneva conventions.

An investigation by SBS's Dateline program, to be aired tonight, filmed the burning of the bodies.

It also filmed a US Army psychological operations unit broadcasting a message boasting of the burnt corpses into a village believed to be harbouring Taliban.

According to an SBS translation of the message, delivered in the local language, the soldiers accused Taliban fighters near Kandahar of being "cowardly dogs". "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing west and burnt. You are too scared to retrieve their bodies. This just proves you are the lady boys we always believed you to be," the message reportedly said.

"You attack and run away like women. You call yourself Taliban but you are a disgrace to the Muslim religion, and you bring shame upon your family. Come and fight like men instead of the cowardly dogs you are."

The burning of a body is a deep insult to Muslims. Islam requires burial within 24 hours.

Under the Geneva conventions the burial of war dead "should be honourable, and, if possible, according to the rites of the religion to which the deceased belonged".

[link|http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/film-rolls-as-troops-burn-dead/2005/10/18/1129401256154.html|source]

It is fortunate that "9/11 changed everything," else these routine desecrations and depravities might be be thought to compromise our standing as the best and bravest and most virtuous nation in the six thousand years since the Intelligent Designer created the cosmos. But no, our three planeloads, two high-rises and E-ring of sacred dead left behind them an apparently bottomless well of moral credit for this foul and stinking predatory empire to draw upon.

cordially,

I note that you raise an accounting issue which has not yet received the full attention of the body- and other-bean counters for which the mentioned Empire is renowned.

(We must leave as aberration, of course - the reputed stretch-wrapped palletloads of crisp $100 bills passed out like cordwood for the winter; I suspect that those receipts did not list with normal precision, as ~
Contractor X: One Humvee-full @ $100,000,000.05)

I speak of the 'damage equivalence factor' of the
3000 + 2xx? in DC <-VS-> the (what? 50X? more? of non-WASP-caste collaterals)

- thus far turned into sausage; not counting the maimed, of course.
I haven't seen a scholarly treatise, suitably updated for 21st Century efficiency, that sets the agio for the browner-hued folks.

How shall we know when vengeance has been achieved, if we haven't the figures for the Correct US/them exchange rate?

Then I see another nagging aspect of the entire play, more akin to Mr. Cantor's nondenumerable infinities (?) whereby a one may not evaluate - yet 'match', compare the relative magnitudes of certain infinite series. It's only sorta.. about numbers -

Ex:
Suppose that we had been possessed of an English-speaking Leader, one capable of measured prose and of projecting a decent facsimile of umm, Gravitas? (but also with Good Hair - always essential) -

A one with less embarrassing swagger (and no spouted absurdities about Crusades, Warz on Evil and such) - would things in the Fatherland have stayed pretty quiet until we matched the 58,xxx soldier-bodies of Vietnam?

Or another way: among those who are Pissed - is it about the premeditated lies and artless, yet ever so >Successful< propaganda <-OR-> at all ... about the Size of the heap of dead burnt bodies?

So many Questions
(But we'll always have our Mother of Sixteen - to remind how quickly we can repopulate.)

Post #230,143 by rcareaga 10/19/05 9:05:41 PM Reply	and still more hearts, minds forever ours! US soldiers in Afghanistan burnt the bodies of dead Taliban and taunted their opponents about the corpses, in an act deeply offensive to Muslims and in breach of the Geneva conventions. An investigation by SBS's Dateline program, to be aired tonight, filmed the burning of the bodies. It also filmed a US Army psychological operations unit broadcasting a message boasting of the burnt corpses into a village believed to be harbouring Taliban. According to an SBS translation of the message, delivered in the local language, the soldiers accused Taliban fighters near Kandahar of being "cowardly dogs". "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing west and burnt. You are too scared to retrieve their bodies. This just proves you are the lady boys we always believed you to be," the message reportedly said. "You attack and run away like women. You call yourself Taliban but you are a disgrace to the Muslim religion, and you bring shame upon your family. Come and fight like men instead of the cowardly dogs you are." The burning of a body is a deep insult to Muslims. Islam requires burial within 24 hours. Under the Geneva conventions the burial of war dead "should be honourable, and, if possible, according to the rites of the religion to which the deceased belonged". [link\|http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/film-rolls-as-troops-burn-dead/2005/10/18/1129401256154.html\|source] It is fortunate that "9/11 changed everything," else these routine desecrations and depravities might be be thought to compromise our standing as the best and bravest and most virtuous nation in the six thousand years since the Intelligent Designer created the cosmos. But no, our three planeloads, two high-rises and E-ring of sacred dead left behind them an apparently bottomless well of moral credit for this foul and stinking predatory empire to draw upon. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #230,155 by CRConrad 10/20/05 2:17:47 AM Reply	"E-ring"? Whazzat?
Post #230,156 by Andrew Grygus 10/20/05 2:25:17 AM Reply	The Pentagon is constructed in concentric rings . . . . . like an onion, but with spaces between. "A-ring" is the center ring counting out to "E-ring", the outermost layer. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #230,158 by CRConrad 10/20/05 3:15:32 AM Reply	Ah, I see, thanks. But I thought there weren't any casualties in the Pentagon itself? [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #230,160 by Ashton 10/20/05 4:34:38 AM Reply	Couple hundred, IIR There were people in that section; prolly on Google. Did you think they had many empty offices in that cathedral?
Post #230,164 by Another Scott 10/20/05 8:12:35 AM Reply	125 in the Pentagon, 64 on American Airlines Flight 77. [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks\|Wikipedia]. I don't know if the Flight 77 figure includes the hijackers. Cheers, Scott.
Post #230,209 by Andrew Grygus 10/20/05 12:42:40 PM Reply	If I recall correctly, deaths in that section . . . . . were lower than they might have been because it had not yet been fully reinhabited after retrofitting to reinforce it against attack. That reinforcement probably limited penetration. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #230,235 by CRConrad 10/20/05 3:51:26 PM Reply	Aha, thanks again. Memory is a funny thing -- I must have... (new thread) Created as new thread #230234 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=230234\|Aha, thanks again. Memory is a funny thing -- I must have...] [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #230,157 by pwhysall 10/20/05 2:25:40 AM Reply	The as-yet undiscovered sister circuit to the Nordschleife? Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #230,161 by Ashton 10/20/05 6:03:28 AM Reply	As strict tabulation is our forte - I note that you raise an accounting issue which has not yet received the full attention of the body- and other-bean counters for which the mentioned Empire is renowned. (We must leave as aberration, of course - the reputed stretch-wrapped palletloads of crisp $100 bills passed out like cordwood for the winter; I suspect that those receipts did not list with normal precision, as ~ Contractor X: One Humvee-full @ $100,000,000.05) I speak of the 'damage equivalence factor' of the 3000 + 2xx? in DC <-VS-> the (what? 50X? more? of non-WASP-caste collaterals) - thus far turned into sausage; not counting the maimed, of course. I haven't seen a scholarly treatise, suitably updated for 21st Century efficiency, that sets the agio for the browner-hued folks. How shall we know when vengeance has been achieved, if we haven't the figures for the Correct US/them exchange rate? Then I see another nagging aspect of the entire play, more akin to Mr. Cantor's nondenumerable infinities (?) whereby a one may not evaluate - yet 'match', compare the relative magnitudes of certain infinite series. It's only sorta.. about numbers - Ex: Suppose that we had been possessed of an English-speaking Leader, one capable of measured prose and of projecting a decent facsimile of umm, Gravitas? (but also with Good Hair - always essential) - A one with less embarrassing swagger (and no spouted absurdities about Crusades, Warz on Evil and such) - would things in the Fatherland have stayed pretty quiet until we matched the 58,xxx soldier-bodies of Vietnam? Or another way: among those who are Pissed - is it about the premeditated lies and artless, yet ever so >Successful< propaganda <-OR-> at all ... about the Size of the heap of dead burnt bodies? So many Questions (But we'll always have our Mother of Sixteen - to remind how quickly we can repopulate.)
Post #230,204 by boxley 10/20/05 12:09:06 PM Reply	psyops, as usual they foobared it Those folks will eat the insult and if it takes one hundred yaers some american will pay. They are not stupid enough to engage a frontal attack on a better armed foe. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #230,898 by marlowe 10/25/05 6:43:08 PM Reply	Still worried about appeasing the Taliban? Of course, you would be. Next you'll be harping about the 19% of Iraq that voted against the Constitution. Good grief, if that few had voted for Bush, what would you be saying then? We're winning hearts and minds. But you haven't got either of these things. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #231,015 by tuberculosis 10/26/05 1:35:56 PM Reply	The who? They were so 9/11 - its WMD now - get on message You are such a loon. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #231,021 by jb4 10/26/05 2:00:39 PM Reply	Todd, you of all people should know... ...how difficult it is to reprogram a 'bot... jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #231,028 by pwhysall 10/26/05 2:45:43 PM Reply	Save your breath. There's the real world, and then the one that Marlowe lives in, where Iraqi children frolic through the street strewing flowers in the path of US Marines. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #231,033 by Andrew Grygus 10/26/05 3:03:26 PM Reply	He'll be preaching the exact same line to the day . . . . . the Republicans are thrown out of office. Then suddenly everything happening in Iraq will be hopeless and entirely the fault of the current Administration (except the parts that are Clinton's fault). [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #231,093 by Ashton 10/26/05 8:12:41 PM Reply	(How did you know My Gramma's MO !?)
Post #231,161 by jb4 10/27/05 11:26:50 AM Reply	How unique do you think yer gramma is? Comes right out of the second chapter of the Demagogue's Handbook (Chapter 1 is the usual Introduction and marketing pap...). jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #231,242 by Ashton 10/27/05 8:41:20 PM Reply	(She wrote the lyrics that accompany..)
Post #231,569 by marlowe 10/30/05 7:08:35 PM Reply	I've got Quadrophenia. The points are many; the message is one. The message is: freedom marches on, and you can't stop it. As Martin Luther King said, we are on the move. Of course he didn't appreciate the limits of nonviolent resistance. But that election and the ratification vote were pretty nonviolent on the side of the people. Marching to the polls through the bullets and bombs. Global change gonna come at last, now your roadside bombs are burning fast... Let go of your hate. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #231,600 by Simon_Jester 10/30/05 10:15:10 PM Reply	So, you're more of a Malcolm X type then?
Post #231,620 by tuberculosis 10/31/05 12:38:05 AM Reply	This "you can't stop it" is telling. Nobody here is trying to stop freedom. We don't think that word means what you think it means I think. You fancy yourself a rebel, a little bit unconventional, a bit subversive. That's the marketing message. All advertising tries to appeal to people by making them feel a little subversive. It works really well on the weak minded. Loners who lack friends. Bit like another former member who is now spinning in his own private missouri. That's your future dude. Enjoy your chesseburger you wild and crazy guy. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #233,898 by marlowe 11/13/05 1:09:41 PM Reply	"Freedom is slavery?" For me, freedom is freedom. I love cheeseburgers. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #233,935 by tuberculosis 11/13/05 7:09:10 PM 8/21/07 5:52:34 AM Reply	No, to you freedom is tyranny and war crimes Or did you miss that little item with the US use of chemical agents (white phosphorous) in 2004. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Sorry man, your team isn't better. Mass murderers? Check the mirror. Secret prisons? Check. Torture, disappearing people in the night? Gotcha. We have met the enemy and they are most definitely US (of A). But you don't care as long as your SUV has gas to get through the drive-thru. Sucker. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 14, 2005, 01:54:11 AM EST Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:52:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #233,941 by Simon_Jester 11/13/05 8:11:01 PM 11/13/05 8:18:13 PM Reply	Shouldn't that read : tyranny and war crimes are freedom.... I know...it should be a boolean operation, but he does equate those two with freedom. Mass murder Torture Death Squads Willy Pete hell, I had him arguing for genocide not too long ago. Edited by Simon_Jester Nov. 13, 2005, 08:18:13 PM EST Expand All History
Post #233,952 by boxley 11/13/05 9:26:34 PM Reply	what! they banned WP? since when? "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #236,083 by marlowe 11/26/05 1:12:39 PM Reply	67 flavors of bulls*t [link\|http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2005_11_16.html#005628\|But never let the facts get the way of your hatred.] Excerpt: On the anti- side, of course, you have accusations that WP is a "chemical" weapon or an "illegal" one. It's not. WP was heavily used in the Second World War by the Allies, including Canada, against both Germany and Japan*, for exactly the same reasons and missions it's being used now. But yes, a WP artillery shell is a bad thing to have land near you... not nearly as bad as a regular high-explosive artillery shell of the same size, but certainly the next worst thing. The job of those opposed would be much harder, of course, if the pro- side had any more of a clue what they were talking about. The State Department's retracted statement, that WP was "fired into the air at night," is classic. It should go without saying that using a smoke shell to try to light up a dark sky would be a failure... I guess only the State Department could confuse phosphorus with magnesium, which is what real illuminating rounds are made of. I've seen a lot of people claiming that the 1980 Incendiary Weapons protocol of Geneva forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilians. It does not. It forbids the use of "incendiaries," and specifically excludes weapons like WP where the incendiary effect is a secondary effect of smoke production (incendiary weapons by definition are those weapons designed to create fires... WP occasionally will start fires, but it's not very reliable in that role... generally it just creates a lot of smoke). Whether the U.S. has signed it or not is irrelevant. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #236,086 by boxley 11/26/05 2:02:34 PM Reply	well it burns nicely underwater, a valuable artillery tool Agreed WP with HE is part and parcel of an artillery mans tools. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #236,159 by tuberculosis 11/27/05 12:13:54 AM 8/21/07 12:42:22 PM Reply	Ah - a connoisseur America is already dead. The current administration has been using the constitution for bog roll since Osama (remember him? he attacked us you know) gave them an excuse and stunned the press into inaction. It has taken them about 4 years to recover their cojones, but the free ride is over. What we are looking for in the next election is someone willing to resurrect america as envisioned by the framers of the constitution (a bunch o atheistic libruls don'tcha know). Most likely, they'll be colored blue. The [link\|http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2005/50StatePOTUS1105SortbyState.htm\|data] doesn't look good for your war criminals and neo-McCarthyites. [image\|http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/cheneythanksgiving.gif\|\|\|\|] I wonder what the whitehouse staff is thankful for this holiday season. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 27, 2005, 12:21:33 AM EST Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:22 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #236,174 by Another Scott 11/27/05 9:53:14 AM Reply	Re: your link. Utah and Idaho are, um, strange. I can see why they'd still be supporting Bush (but the margin surprises me). Why aren't Louisiana and Mississippi off the chart? I'd like to think these polls mean something in times like this, but I really don't. I think polls are swayed by reporting of them. That is, if there's good news about the country and the polling numbers are good, then the polling numbers will continue to rise even if the good news has little or nothing to do with the president's policies. What could people point to that they liked when Bush's numbers were 90% approval? Just going to Afghanistan, AFAIK. I don't think 90% liked his tax cuts, etc. In other words, we won't really start to know if Bush and the Republicans are in trouble with the electorate until September or October of next year - when people have a real choice on the ballot and when the candidates are talking in specifics about the issues. Cheers, Scott.
Post #236,419 by GBert 11/29/05 11:03:54 AM Reply	Bush has always been worse running unopposed Bush is never at his best running unopposed. He's been losing to "undetermined democrat" for years. He only really comes into his own when he has someone to play against. As they say -- you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to make sure no one sees you clobber your fishing buddy over the head from behind as you run. Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for. You don't need George Bush for that.
Post #236,426 by Another Scott 11/29/05 11:29:10 AM Reply	ICLRPD. (new thread) Created as new thread #236425 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=236425\|ICLRPD.]
Post #233,951 by boxley 11/13/05 9:25:37 PM Reply	from freedom to slavery read the book, then figure it out. thanx. bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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