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New That last idea may actually be a good one.
After all, look what happens when the "professionals" try to spend that money instead. :P
apt-get install godlike-powers
New I think its necessary
but insufficient. Money at the Superdome would have been useless - nothing to spend it on.

More annoying is how the govs have been penny wise but pound foolish. Prevention would have been MUCH cheaper (probably a factor of 10).



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:38:15 PM EDT
New And why was there nothing at the Superdome?

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Oh, you know
Bush didn't stock it.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New You two really need to get a room....
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Nerve struck.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Could you spell that one out for me please?
I'm not sure what point it is you are making here. I have a suspicion but I would rather you actually say what you mean instead of infer in this case.
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.

--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
New Who told them to go there?
Why was nothing done prior to the storm to prepare it for use as a shelter. Extra water, extra food?

3rd string quarterback is taking alot of blame here.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Good question.
Why don't you ask [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=223782|the people who were responsible for not getting the stuff there]?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Way to support the next
federal power grab and to absolve anyone except the federal government from any responsibility in any emergency!

Good show, chap.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New What next "federal power grab"
I suppose you haven't been paying attention when the USSC already completed that "power grab" with such things as Bush v Gore (which, as I recall, you actively, wholeheartedly supported), medicinal marijuana, same-sex marriage, and so on.

<herring color=red>Your last post</herring>
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New feds serving you since 1865 (whether you like it or not)
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New 3rd string QB was on the field
So whom else to blame?

Mayor told them to go - he also told them to bring 3-4 days food and water. He also mentioned he'd prefer they evacuate but for those who couldn't get out, this was the next best thing.

Perhaps you should review the [link|http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline|timelines], but emergency was [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html|declared] and FEMA supposedly in charge 2 days prior to hurricane coming ashore (although there is some [link|http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/637/1/|confusion] around the scope of this).

9/11 showed we lack command and control integration of multiple services. Dept of Homeland Security and FEMA were supposed to fix that problem. In a dry run last year with hurricane Pam, it was shown that the problem remains. In the wet run of Katrina, the problem remains. The job isn't getting done.

Tim Russert [link|http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Imus-Russert-Katrina.mov|lays] it out pretty well.

Meanwhile, Jon Stewart does a fine job of hitting the high points of Brown's [link|http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Meet-the%20F--kers-9-7.wmv|leadership].

Also, why do you suppose only the Dems want an independent investigation while the Reps insist we don't need one? Seems a bit like the foxes launching an investigation into chicken disapperances on behalf of the farmers.

[image|http://www.crooksandliars.com/images/2005/09/07/Bush-guitar.jpg||||]




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:54 PM EDT
New Where did you get that picture?!?
And can you be sure of its authenticity? As much as I want to believe it, it seems odd that NeroBerk would be so obviously fiddling (literally) with that SES (Shit-Eating Smirk) on his puss, with an obviously distraught black commoner so close to him.
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Photoshopped
But a lovely juxtaposition showing two different perspectives of the same period of time.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:43:32 PM EDT
New His point is still valid....
giving people money is silly if all the stores are closed.

One valid argument FOR looting was those looting for food. The food is inside and the stores are closed. Do you force people to starve while the owner is away? If they leave money on the cash register, is it looting?



Sidenote: strictly speaking the Superdome was a great idea for getting people into a safer place. Yes, there was no food/power/facilities, but this ignores:

  1. more people would've died if they stayed at home
  2. that this provides a more plausable reason for cities to build such large structures. (Really we'll get the money back when it's pumped into our economy...honest!)
  3. that additional features such as backup generates, etc. actually add value to the stadium as a sports complex and as an emergency shelter


There needs to be a lot of thinking into how to organize public supplies to provide additional services in times of need. Complaints that the NO School Buses could've moved poor people out of the city are entirely valid....but no one has explored the full range of possibilities as yet.
New the onion is in danger of becoming a serious news source

White Foragers Report Threat Of Black Looters



NEW ORLEANS\ufffdThroughout the Gulf Coast, Caucasian suburbanites attempting to gather food and drink in the shattered wreckage of shopping districts have reported seeing African\ufffdAmericans "looting snacks and beer from damaged businesses." "I was in the abandoned Wal-Mart gathering an air mattress so I could float out the potato chips, beef jerky, and Budweiser I'd managed to find," said white survivor Lars Wrightson, who had carefully selected foodstuffs whose salt and alcohol content provide protection against contamination. "Then I look up, and I see a whole family of [African-Americans] going straight for the booze. Hell, you could see they had already looted a fortune in diapers." Radio stations still in operation are advising store owners and white people in the affected areas to locate firearms in sporting-goods stores in order to protect themselves against marauding blacks looting gun shops.

[link|http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40305|God Outdoes Terrorists Yet Again]
Have fun,
Carl Forde
New On the other hand.
Let's suppose you have 20,000 people gathered in a stadium for temporary shelter. You know that they cannot go back to their homes, and you know that they will not be there for more than 2-3 days.

Doesn't it make sense to spend part of the time that they're there getting them registered, attending to their needs with food, water, medical care, communications with remote family, and providing money to them so that they'll be able to purchase items when they leave?

What should have happened, IMO, was the paperwork and distribution of items should have been taken care of within 12 hours, and as soon as the storm cleared the people should have been bussed out of the city to other shelters. Instead they were trapped there, apparently due to bureaucratic bumbling bordering on the criminal.

Yes, they didn't need money in a stadium. But they would need money very soon after they left. Whether the debit cards were pased out at the Superdome or convention center or Astrodome doesn't really matter. (Though conditions were so bad in NO that it probably didn't make sense to do the distribution there - there probably would have been even more crime had it happened there.)

The N.O. stadiums were intended for temporary shelter during the storm - not to be a giant tent for people to live in for nearly a week. After a couple of days, keeping people there was more dangerous than having them walk out of town.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Pays hotel bills
restauraunt bills and other expenses incurred by those displaced. (or are we forgetting everyone who >did< make it out?)

Its not a perfect solution but to deem it "useless" is to harsh in the opposite direction.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New There's nothing in all NO to spend money on.
I think they'd rather get water than cash. You can drink water.

What fuckwit would charge refugees for food at an emergency shelter?



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:41:01 PM EDT
New As stated above
you are simply ignoring the several hundred thousand who got out with this comment.

The ones that are filling hotel rroms from Beaumont, TX through Atlanta and as far north as Memphis.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Who said it was useless?
But its not a universal fix. How long until some right wing moron job says some shit like "well, I guess those people really made out".



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:41:53 PM EDT
New Too late. The right wing moron job was Barbara Bush.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New because the have nots destroyed it last time
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
     Political wrangling delayed NO disaster recovery - (JayMehaffey) - (30)
         Not sure it could have been much sooner - (SpiceWare) - (3)
             Hmmmm... - (jb4) - (2)
                 Odd - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                     New linky is OK! thanx! -NT - (jb4)
         Yep, someone has been playing - (Simon_Jester) - (25)
             My favorites - (tuberculosis) - (24)
                 That last idea may actually be a good one. - (inthane-chan) - (23)
                     I think its necessary - (tuberculosis) - (22)
                         And why was there nothing at the Superdome? - (bepatient) - (21)
                             Oh, you know - (SpiceWare) - (2)
                                 You two really need to get a room.... -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                     Nerve struck. -NT - (bepatient)
                             Could you spell that one out for me please? - (Silverlock) - (8)
                                 Who told them to go there? - (bepatient) - (7)
                                     Good question. - (jb4) - (3)
                                         Way to support the next - (bepatient) - (2)
                                             What next "federal power grab" - (jb4) - (1)
                                                 feds serving you since 1865 (whether you like it or not) -NT - (boxley)
                                     3rd string QB was on the field - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                         Where did you get that picture?!? - (jb4) - (1)
                                             Photoshopped - (tuberculosis)
                             His point is still valid.... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                 the onion is in danger of becoming a serious news source - (cforde)
                                 On the other hand. - (Another Scott)
                                 Pays hotel bills - (bepatient)
                             There's nothing in all NO to spend money on. - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                 As stated above - (bepatient) - (2)
                                     Who said it was useless? - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                         Too late. The right wing moron job was Barbara Bush. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                             because the have nots destroyed it last time -NT - (boxley)

Wow, now I'm going to get a sparkly jacket and call myself a witch...
176 ms