Post #223,120
9/6/05 1:14:58 PM
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OK, so I did not get a car till I was on my second year
in the country (or was it a third?). I managed without. Did I have to? Not really. I could have gotten myself a wreck. If I wasn't living in Brooklyn, I would have. Box's example involves someone working for less than minimum wage, an illegal. A very different cattle of fish.
In any case, I can even concede the point about cars. The two main points still stand. The mayor should have taken care of the poor. The Astrodome should have been an evacuation hub, not a concentartion camp. FEMA is not the agency to do it.
And the kind of people who stayed behind were the wrong people. Do you have a car now? I think you do. Would you thrash a store that you had to break into to get food? I don't think so. If you stayed there, it would have been a blessing for the people around you. I suspect, even if you substract the sick and so on, substract the people down on their luck, you still get the majority of those left behind. The majority that made things worse for themselves by being who they are.
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179. I will not outsource core functions.
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[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #223,121
9/6/05 1:22:53 PM
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minimum wage is 5.15 per hour, most jobs in NO are minimum
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,122
9/6/05 1:26:47 PM
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Nit: *kettle* of fish
Altough your version conjures images of stampeding guppies. Git along.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #223,139
9/6/05 2:02:59 PM
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Minor fix - Astrodome = Houston
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #223,144
9/6/05 2:07:36 PM
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"If you stayed there?"
I have a car now, true. I moved away from NJ, my family, my friends, and the support base that was keeping me alive to get the job I have now. It was offered to me out of the blue; it was luck alone that I escaped poverty. If I had been moved to NO, there is NO FRIGGIN' WAY that I would have stayed. Had such a thing happened in NJ while I was in dire straits, I might have been trapped just as many in NO were (except that I'm sure that I could have hitched a ride with my friends - not everybody has the friends I do though); I would have been completely pissed off, I assure you. What happened there was that the 'haves' were given a plan to evacuate the poor were left to fend for themselves. The busses, even if they were used as planned, only shifted the poor around the doomed city. The poor, having been left on their own, having been left to live or die at the whim of a storm, took what they wanted in addition to what they needed, true. I sympathize (even if I probably would not have been among the looters) with them. It must have seemed like the one shot they were ever going to have to get nice things. The rationalization that the ones that owned the looted goods had left them there to die anyway probably made it easier, too. Remember, just because you are economically disadvantaged does NOT make you stupid. That's a Republican myth. As to the wrong people being left behind - well, you are right there - though I suspect for the wrong reason. The people that COULD have shifted for themselves should have been the last priority in an evacuation plan. The poor should have been the first priority. Those with the power (read: wealth) to find thier way out of the city should have been left to do so. "The majority that made things worse for themselves by being who they are." Once again, the Republican (and now Neocon) tactic of demonizing the poor. Being wealthy does not make you better IN ANY WAY than the poor. In fact, the opposite may be true; the isolation of the wealthy from the troubles of the world can make them numb, insensitive, it enable them to hold downright evil philosophies. Do you REALLY believe that if you took a relatively pampered multimillionaire away from toilets, food, and water, baked him in sweltering heat, surrounded him with death and destruction, and he knew that he had been left behind while others had escaped as part of a plan he'd be less likely to go apeshit and wreck stuff? I don't. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #223,181
9/6/05 3:53:11 PM
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Interesting juxtaposition"
Those with the power (read: wealth) to find thier way out of the city should have been left to do so. Oooohh! Trickle UP! /me likes! jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #223,257
9/6/05 8:34:42 PM
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"Being" wealthy does not make you any better
"Getting" relatively well-off and able to afford what you need, most of the time, does. Getting truly "wealthy" may actually mean you're a thief. But most people in most places here just earn enough money for decent living. They don't get to become "pamepered millioners", but they do get to learn that nobody can be trusted to provide for you. And certainly not government.
(again, that being said, it was the Govt's duty to provide for those people. The fact that we know how "trustworthy" they are does not free them from providing services. The goddamn mayor did not have neither last nor first priorities, he simply announced that every man is for himself.)
Yes, we seem to agree that the people who could get the hell out of dodge would be the most valuable is they were to stay. May be the main lesson of this is that either you do a complete evacuation, forced if needed, or you evacuate no one, and ask (beg?) the people who can stabilize the situation to stay. As you say, you'd be the first man out, on your own car or with friends. It would be wrong for the govt to keep you in. But I guess they coudl ask...
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179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #223,264
9/6/05 8:48:23 PM
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But where were the "Compassionate Conservatives?"
Isn't that what the New Right is supposed to be composed of? I mean, couldn't Heather Soccer Mom fit a few of the less fortunate in her HumVee to escape? I think the reason Dub's getting a little more heat this time is that this is the second time that his administration failed to heed warnings in August (8/01 and 8/05) and lied about receiving any warnings. That's wearing a little thin, even with most Muricans.
What we have here is a symptom of our general lack of a sense of community. I know you'll (Arkadiy) read that as "code", but I genuinely believe it. Look at the disparity of wealth. The poor, for whatever reasons, were left to fend for themselves; the wealthy got out. Is it any wonder that they're angry? But here even the under class doesn't have a united sense of identity. If it did, most of South Central LA, South Chicago, huge sections of Detroit and New York would be on fire right now. I'm amazed more major urban areas aren't glowing. If there was a Left in this country and if it had a leader with the charisma of a Che, youthful Fidel, Lenin, Trotsky or even Bukharin, there'd be a revolution beginning in New Orleans. But the fruits of capitalism (especially technology) have divided us. There's no fixing it now.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #223,272
9/6/05 9:02:36 PM
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selling whiskey to the Indians I suppose
there are compassionate conservatives all over the south taking in people of all races and needs, they are represented, their leaders are not.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,281
9/6/05 9:18:04 PM
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Good question.
May be they were thinking that the Democratic city govt was sufficiently competent to help those who needed help.
Consider me for example. It used to be that when I packed my family in my car, there was no space left except for one more small child. Now that we have two cars, we could take another (small) family. Only problem: I don't know anybody who has no car. Somebody would have to match the people who need a ride out with the car owners. Guess who has all the records? Say, welfare rolls vs. DMV regs on two-car families. But those bastards could not even use their own buses.
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179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #223,289
9/6/05 10:13:26 PM
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There are lots of very nice cars...
...floating around in downtown NO.
Methinks there is a focus on poor when alot of folks didn't heed intitial warnings.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #223,285
9/6/05 9:47:51 PM
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But... I DON'T agree that it would
BETTER for the 'haves' to stay - just that they were capable of leaving on their own. More attention and care for the evacuation of the poor should have been paid. Indeed, my point was almost opposite yours.
I DO NOT believe the wealthy would do better under the same conditions. I do not think there is any correllation between moral fortitude and wealth. Either way.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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