Er. No.

Post #22,022 by pwhysall 12/19/01 5:35:45 PM Reply	Er. No. W2K is NOT easy to manage - it requires care and attention. Allowing your PHBs near the W2K servers is likely to result in getting the backup tapes out sooner rather than later. NetWare is an admin's wet dream come true. Licencing is transparent, server management is a snap - although you have to know what you're doing. But then, if you don't run with scissors... NDS kicks AD all over the shop on a number of levels. (If anyone's really interested in a crashingly dull synopsis of the weaknesses of AD, feel free to take my word for it :) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #22,026 by nking 12/19/01 5:37:58 PM Reply	I haven't used Netware since 3.X So I missed the 4.X and above enhancements. So I was going by past experience when things got handled by DOS utilities. They may have some nice GUI utilities now? "Before Christmas it is 'Ho ho ho', after Christmas it is 'Owe owe owe'" - Santa Norm
Post #22,027 by pwhysall 12/19/01 5:40:22 PM Reply	Sigh Even 3.x was nifty - can't you remember netadmin.exe? (Or was it nwadmin.exe?) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #22,030 by nking 12/19/01 5:49:01 PM Reply	My memory is a bit spotty it was over 10 years ago that I really got into working with it that much. So my memory is a bit fuzzy. I did work with 3.11 around 1993-1996, but we migrated to NT at that job. I worked with a Network Administrator that did most of the work, and I just added new users, printers, and created a database to track requests and changes back then. If only I had a copy to work with at home, but the prices are out of my price range. "Before Christmas it is 'Ho ho ho', after Christmas it is 'Owe owe owe'" - Santa Norm
Post #22,048 by tjsinclair 12/19/01 7:16:14 PM Reply	Netadmin.exe This was also available in 4.x and spoke NDS. I used to enjoy showing my students how they could manage their enterprise network from a DOS prompt. Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits The Emperor had all the qualifications for a corpse except, as it were, the most vital one. -- (Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times)
Post #22,096 by Arkadiy 12/20/01 10:20:31 AM Reply	NW 3 - coder's nightmare. I worked there for a wihile. They started writing NLMs before anybody else. So, even though I was on the Windows side of things, I have to say this: An OS that has no memory protection and no preemptive multitasking in version 4 deserves to die. The only reason it has a reputation of "stable" is because of the certification process programmers had to go through. As a part of that, Novel requested all object files, and some source code for the program. They were looking for things that would cause a GPF or 100% CPU on another OS, but would be fatal to entire Netware server. So, Novell acted as our second level test department. And, since they had no virtual memory either, they would request our codes to remove every single uncalled function using #ifdef (the linker could not figure it out). In general, coding for NW 3 and 4 was pure hell.
Post #22,241 by Brandioch 12/21/01 1:32:56 PM Reply	Memory is like an orgasm. It's better when you don't have to fake it. (quoting badly from I don't know who) That's the reason Novell didn't have virtual memory in the earlier versions. Everything running was running in memory and they didn't need to swap out anything. Not to mention the performance hit if you ran out of real memory and started hitting disks. Other than that, yep, the memory model sucked big time. And writing nlm's for it was very difficult. But it was FAST! And it was STABLE! I would rather pay the extra so the ISV can put the extra hours in to get their software to run without leaks or anything ON MY SERVER! I've seen NetWare 3.x boxes that have been running for more than 3 years without a single reboot or failure.
Post #22,059 by inthane-chan 12/19/01 9:39:32 PM Reply	When the shill sez it's better than Windoze... ...then it's really gotta be something special! Just tweakin' ya, Peter! "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #22,028 by nking 12/19/01 5:46:53 PM Reply	PHBs and Administration access Where I used to work recently, they had given the PHBs administrator access. Gee, I wonder why the servers had issues, eh? :) On the web server, for some reason the permissions kept on changing. Someone had given the group "Everyone" read/write access at times. Then people with Frontpage loaded the ASP scripts into Frontpage, and it mangled up the VBScript code. Ah memories, makes me glad that I don't work there anymore. "Before Christmas it is 'Ho ho ho', after Christmas it is 'Owe owe owe'" - Santa Norm
Post #22,049 by tjsinclair 12/19/01 7:19:20 PM Reply	NDS truly is the bomb, as the kids say (Actually, my younger students would say "It's the shit.") Working the server console, on the other hand, can get ugly very quickly. (However, there's a lot of power there if you know what you're doing.) Speaking of ease-of-use when it comes to servers: Since when was it a good thing to have a sysadmin who doesn't know what they're doing? Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits The Patrician was a pragmatist. He never tried to fix things that worked. Things that didn't work, however, got broken. -- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
Post #22,072 by pwhysall 12/20/01 3:48:50 AM Reply	Re: NDS truly is the bomb, as the kids say The server console is not for managing the network; it's for managing the server. Which is why you can load/unload modules, for example, but you can't change a user's password. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #22,094 by tjsinclair 12/20/01 10:10:51 AM Reply	Understood But as of NetWare 5 you have the Java-based ConsoleOne utility which can administer the NDS tree. Of course, I disable this immediately after bringing up a new server since it's slow, limited in functionality, wastes server resources and requires the server to have a mouse, keyboard and monitor attached. At any rate, the hairiness I was referring involved the console-based server management tools. Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits "Time passed, which, basically, is its job." \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t-(Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites)

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