That's pretty much all Paganism.

Post #20,858 by Andrew Grygus 12/9/01 9:30:29 PM Reply	That's pretty much all Paganism. Even the story of the birth of Jesus pretty much follows a well worn format. Moving the story to December (tax time was in April back then too) was to align the story with standard Pagan seasonal celebrations. I don't think you're going to find much support for Santa in the writings of the early church fathers either. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the fact that it's Paganism is a bad thing . . . Blessed be [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #22,016 by nking 12/19/01 5:23:27 PM Reply	The history of Santa Claus and Christmas [link\|http://www.wowcom.net/christmas97/day16/\|A breif history of Santa Claus] has St. Nicholas' feast day on December 6th. [link\|http://www.santalady.com/history.html\|Santa Lady's history of Santa] tells more. Jesus died and rose from the dead in April, and they couldn't have Easter and Christmas on the same month. So they moved the holiday to December. Most likely December 25th was chosen over being close to holidays of other religions and near New Years day when the New Year was changed from April to January. As you said, some Paganism was added, most likely to help convert some of the Pagans into Christianity in Europe in the old days? "Before Christmas it is 'Ho ho ho', after Christmas it is 'Owe owe owe'" - Santa Norm
Post #22,159 by static 12/20/01 9:11:57 PM Reply	You're right about why Christmas is in December. The early church decided to co-opt Saturnalia, AFAIK. That's one reason it has so many rituals and customs associated with it. The other is that a number of winter ones got "de-paganised" over time and became associated with Christmas again due to the church's influence. (Much the same thing happened with Easter, too.) From what I remember reading somewhere, Jesus' birth would have occurred in October. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #22,189 by boxley 12/21/01 12:17:58 AM Reply	an astronomer would look up the dates that all planets were in alignment to create the "star" thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #22,209 by ben_tilly 12/21/01 7:25:23 AM Reply	Sorry, there weren't any then But I can offer an [link\|http://manetheren.cl.msu.edu/~vanhoose/astro/0001.html\|amazing conjunction] from which we found when the Chinese calendar started. Cheers, Ben
Post #22,234 by nking 12/21/01 12:53:38 PM Reply	True; however, was the star formed before or after Jesus was born? Could they have stayed in the manger for a few months before the Wise Men (Kings, whatever?) showed up? I submit that if the star showed up in October, and then the Wise Men followed it until December, and Jesus was born in December that Joseph and Mary traveled fro October to December to get "home" and eventually arrived in the manager that it was pre-ordaned. Or maybe the Wise Men already where in the area, and saw the star and followed it and then found the manager along the way that had a lot of people looking and the star appeared to be over it? We don't really know all the details. It could have been an Angel hovering over the manager with a very large spotlight? :) But you are correct, someone should look up the alignment of the planets, or a star going super nova and the light first reaching Earth to see when the star appeared. "Before Christmas it is 'Ho ho ho', after Christmas it is 'Owe owe owe'" - Santa Norm
Post #22,256 by mhuber 12/21/01 9:22:59 PM Reply	Shepherds Tend not to watch flocks by night in December. Cold. In other news, male reindeer lose their antlers in the Fall. Females do not. So if you see a reindeer with antlers 'round this time of year, "Vixen" is reasonable name, but "Rudolph" is a bit butch and "Cupid" makes no sense at all. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #22,268 by kmself 12/22/01 1:59:11 AM Reply	Did someone mention... ...sheep? ;-) `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #22,272 by Steve Lowe 12/22/01 2:21:24 AM Reply	Somebody get him a Woman! ----- Steve
Post #22,286 by a6l6e6x 12/22/01 10:26:59 AM Reply	Ewe animal, ewe! :) Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #22,280 by Ashton 12/22/01 6:51:09 AM Reply	OTOH Mike, there are other factors.. See, if one takes the number of Angels dancing upon a pin at 0\ufffdK (I know.. I know..) and divides by the number of Aremaic words in the OT X [sq.rt of the Seven Seals]: the effect upon local deer (and calendars) is well.. virtually incalculable. Next divide the volume of water materialized (temporarily) for the Great Flood, observe the density when this is transported to a nearby neutron star and - Everything falls neatly into place. (Well, as neatly as the rest) HTH. Ashton
Post #22,208 by ben_tilly 12/21/01 7:22:09 AM Reply	October? Only if, like you, he was from down under and the seasons were funny. Sheep usually give birth to lambs in the spring. Our spring is March. Cheers, Ben
Post #22,353 by static 12/23/01 8:22:41 PM Reply	Forgive me... ... but what was the connection to when lambs give birth? Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #22,356 by admin 12/23/01 9:27:43 PM Reply	Cute fictional account: [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961566418/qid=1009159844/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_7_4/107-0715999-8713307\|The Life And Adventures Of Santa Claus] Regards, -scott anderson

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