Post #194,605
2/14/05 3:56:05 PM
2/14/05 4:09:53 PM
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No way.
You're kidding, right?
They stop on the roundabout (circle)?
/me falls over, fbog, etc.
Traffic on the roundabout has right of way. End of problem. I'm surprised that your driving test doesn't cover roundabouts (circles) at least in theory.
There does come a point where no road system can cope, and congestion is the result.
WARNING: Road Geekiness Ahead.
If you don't have roundabouts (circles), you're very restricted in the types of interchanges you can build when motorways (freeways) meet.
Basically you're limited to the cloverleaf, whirlpool and the 4-layer stack (and the myriad variants thereof), all of which are completely impractical in even vaguely urban settings due to the massive land take that they require. The 4-layer stack in particular, while allowing massive traffic flows, is a really rather substantial engineering feat and is so expensive that there's only 3 in the UK, one where the M4 and M5 meet, and the other two on the M25.
Rant: Roundabouts! Traffic Lights! Make up your mind! Traffic lights moderating the traffic onto a roundabout at peak times is kindasortafairynuff. Putting traffic lights ON the roundabout is just EVIL.
Peter
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Edited by pwhysall
Feb. 14, 2005, 04:09:53 PM EST
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Post #194,608
2/14/05 4:03:16 PM
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Way.
It's enough to ruin a morning. Boom. Dead stop in the circle, cars piling up behind. The best part is the wounded expression the asshat invariably puts on when the horn blowing starts. "What? What? I'm just being nice and letting someone in!"
This has happened to me several times in the past few months.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #194,610
2/14/05 4:11:12 PM
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Send 'em over here.
They can then feel the love of 30 tonnes of HGV gently pushing them off the roundabout.
Peter
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Post #194,612
2/14/05 4:15:30 PM
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No lights in/on the circles.
I was referring to replacing all of the intersections with lights with circles.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #194,616
2/14/05 4:34:39 PM
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Way. Dupont Circle in D.C.
[link|http://www.alaskaroundabouts.com/history.html|Roundabouts]: "NONCONFORMING" TRAFFIC CIRCLES
The early traffic circles often incorporated one or several problematic operational or design elements that would not be permitted in a modern roundabout. For example:
1. Entering traffic had right-of-way - At higher volumes this locks up the circle
2. Entries were regulated by stop signs or traffic lights - This reduces fluidity and capacity.
3. Entries were tangential to circle - This encourages high entering speeds and reduces the safety benefits.
4. Pedestrians crossed onto the central island - This is unsafe for pedestrians and disruptive for drivers.
5. The through road cut through the circle - Capacity, fluidity, and safety benefits are lost by the need to signalize the central intersection.
6. Circulating traffic was controlled by a traffic signal or stop sign - This decreases the fluidity of circulating traffic and can lock up the circle.
7. Parking was permitted in the circle - This reduces the capacity and safety of the circle by adding friction and conflicts.
Among the more notable nonconforming traffic circles are:
1. Dupont Circle in Washington, D.C. - where entries are regulated by a mixture of traffic lights, stop and yield signs, the circle includes a weaving section, and pedestrians walk onto the central island; That doesn't cover half of the problem. There are about 3 lanes in the circle, but one is partially blocked by a concrete curb part of the way around. If you don't know exactly where you're going and when to exit, you'll not have any clue by the time you enter the circle. There are several traffic lights in the circle as well. Driving in D.C. is a nightmare as it is (e.g. there are roads where it is illegal to turn left for about 10 miles, so if you make a wrong turn expect to be delayed at least 30 minutes trying to where you started), but trying to drive through Dupont Circle except at about 0530 on a Sunday morning is an excercise in futility. It does have the advantage that Connecticut Avenue goes under the circle, so a lot of traffic can avoid it. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #194,617
2/14/05 4:39:04 PM
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That's a nasty one.
I worked not too far from Dupont Circle. What a nightmare.
I've seen ambulances stuck in that circle before, trying to drive up on the median to get through. Impossible.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #194,620
2/14/05 5:02:52 PM
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Only 3 - wow
They're everywhere here. Here's some [link|http://www.texasfreeway.com/houston/photos/bw8/bw8.shtml|info & photos] of the stacks for beltway 8 that circles Houston. It doesn't cover the stacks found on the other freeway interchanges.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #194,621
2/14/05 5:12:19 PM
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Nice!
[link|http://www.texasfreeway.com/houston/photos/bw8/bw8_290.shtml|http://www.texasfree...bw8/bw8_290.shtml] <-- Waddatheymean, "complete disregard for aesthetics"? It's BEAUTIFUL!
Peter
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Post #194,627
2/14/05 5:17:39 PM
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For something a bit more freeform...
...you can't beat good old [link|http://www.philipjohnston.com/bham/spaghetti.htm|Spaghetti Junction] (Gravelly Hill Interchange).
And [link|http://www.texasfreeway.com/houston/photos/bw8/bw8_i10e.shtml|this] is art, in pre-stressed concrete and steel.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Post #194,722
2/15/05 9:03:09 AM
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We have one of those in Atlanta
[link|http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues01/apr01/images/traffic_spaghetti_junction_jpg.html|Tom Moreland Interchange] AKA Dysfunction junction AKA Spaghetti junction.
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
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Post #194,634
2/14/05 5:39:26 PM
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Maybe you'd prefer one of these?
[link|http://members.cox.net/mkpl/interchange/interchange.html|http://members.cox.n.../interchange.html]
Gives aerial shots of a good number in the LA area.
I've driven through most of them.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #194,640
2/14/05 5:54:35 PM
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Ooh, pretty.
The one on I710 SB is a textbook example of a 4-layer stack. Gorgeous!
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Post #194,643
2/14/05 6:02:29 PM
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Fonts and interchanges, you find beauty in the oddest places
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #194,905
2/16/05 1:35:37 AM
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'beauty in the oddest places' - a Jesus story (!)
It's alleged (maybe a Sufi story) that..
JC was walking down a road with some associates and he spotted a dead dog along the side.
Others averted their eyes. JC (~~, as always):
No, Look! See the beautiful teeth in this animal!!
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Post #194,909
2/16/05 2:06:11 AM
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Pshaw
The dead dog in modern Westernia is not the glory that is the motorway interchange, but the endless miles of crappy low-rise sprawl that seems to surround every city, from Prague to Peterborough to Pittsburgh.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Post #194,923
2/16/05 7:03:10 AM
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Actually
Pittsburgh is surrounded more by hills and farms -
But being from New Jersey (which more than makes up for Pittsburgh in this regard :-( ) your point is very well taken.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #194,731
2/15/05 10:03:33 AM
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Thanks for reminding me why I left CA.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
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Post #194,753
2/15/05 11:02:54 AM
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What?! There are BETTER ONES elsewhere? Show me!
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Post #195,131
2/17/05 9:40:13 AM
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I gothcher "better" right cheer.
[link|http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=16&X=1612&Y=11481&W=1|http://www.terraserv...=1612&Y=11481&W=1]
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
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Post #195,133
2/17/05 9:45:04 AM
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When the revolution comes, the pilots will be first ... ;-)
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Post #194,636
2/14/05 5:44:52 PM
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newer ones are more "artistic"
I've been documenting some of them in my [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass] gallery, such as [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/SanAntonio/dcp_0241|this new ramp] at one of the stacks in San Antonio. I need to get back down to Corpus Christi, one new section has sea animals in all the support columns, similiar to this [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/CorpusChristi/dcp_0066|retaining wall] in Portland(just north of Corpus).
Note - you can click on my photos for an even bigger image
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #195,999
2/22/05 4:32:03 PM
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Other nice photos
[link|http://www.houstonfreeways.com/aerial_challenge_index.aspx|http://www.houstonfr...llenge_index.aspx]
They definitely dispel the notion some people have of Texas being a desert :-)
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #194,886
2/15/05 10:54:51 PM
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When roundabouts don't work.
They are practically everywhere in Sydney. I remember them coming in in a big way a few decades ago.
The vast majority of them are little tiny things; small enough that busses go over them and people treat them as a variant of stop-sign intersections. One of the largest in Sydney, the five-ways at Miranda, was replaced with a traffic-light intersection a few years ago. The reason? Accident reduction.
But there are places where they are counter-productive. That's where two legs have much more traffic than the other two. Near where my parents live, we had an intersection of a side-street and a main road moderated by a roundabout. It was nasty, almost worse than the simple T-intersection beforehand. Those In Charge wouldn't believe a set of traffic lights was what was needed. The roundabout never got finished before they ripped it out and put in lights!
Oh, if you're ever driving in Melbourne, watch out for roundabouts where the tram lines go through the middle. Traffic on the roundabout has to give way to the trams, of course.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #194,908
2/16/05 2:03:37 AM
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Teehee
too much Castlemaine XXXX at the road planning meetings, methinks.
The miniroundabout (for that is what you describe) is a pointless monstrosity, unwanted and unloved.
Every time you see a roundabout replaced with lights, prepare for queues.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Post #196,281
2/25/05 1:17:24 AM
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Just be careful of exporting your experience.
The roundabout disaster I described was because of local MPs and planners who couldn't believe the local residents - who'd lived there years - knew what they wanted. Traffic lights made queues, but they made them predictable. When it was a roundabout, the queues were longer.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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