Post #171,000
8/25/04 9:58:56 PM
|
networking philosophy
Networks are dumb, they need to be plumbed like a water pipe, but blockages and stoppages need to be centrally planned but not by plumbers, but beurocrats.
If I have an app that is accessed by netpoint foo, I should control under my direction foo inbound.
If my app is >25% of revenue I should have at least the following.
input into overall network design (as it impacts my revenue)
at the very least readonly access to all points of the network for fast diagnostics of what the fsck is impacting me now to report to revenue paying customers.
KNOWLEDGEABLE input into designing of same pipes.
and shop stewards position on the networking union.
Barry, Greg and others with input please kick in 2 cents.
How it is done now is unacceptable and I need to come up with viable solutions that will save our rep, and hopefully our customers rep on how we do bidness.
Apps dictate networks, the netfolks design to our needs, we design they build with right to refuse stupidity,
thanx,
dabox
|
Post #171,006
8/25/04 10:46:47 PM
|
Should? Maybe.
Likely? Nah.
It is politics. Are you willing to
KNIFE the guy currently running the
network?
Really.
No middle ground here.
You are stepping into his territory. He may
have a lot of buried bodies, bad decisions,
crappy designs, etc.
So, you make alliance with his boss, and have
a replacement candididate for the job waiting
in the wings. Because this guy will NOT be
helpful and will block you every way possible.
Then, you monitor. You get permission simply
to passively watch. You have to do it as cheaply
and non-intrusively as possible. You measure, and
you collect data. For a while.
You inject data streams from multiple endpoints.
And you have to have "control" streams to other
area to ensure lost data is not happening somewhere
else. This is voodoo as much as it is science,
so you have to have as much data as possible.
You then chart the data against what you consider
reasonable. And you present it FIRST to the network
guy and give him a chance to respond and add info
to your report. This is the ONLY chance you give
him to come clean and be helpful. If he is not,
you go on the warpath.
But this all depends on the data. You can voice NO
assumptions before you have it or you are backseat
driving whiner who has no clue. Even if you do, it
won't matter because you can't prove it.
Wanna explain the players to me?
Email if you want more.
|
Post #171,027
8/26/04 9:46:04 AM
|
Since broom took the PHB side...
I'll help out on the tech side a bit.
Get a machine, any machine, lookup something called Nagios.
It can do passive read-only monitoring. Using public snmp data.
Setup MRTG at the same time. Asking him to direct logs to the machine as a tool for him. Make sure he feels it is a piece to HELP him. Cheerfull. Kind helpful things.
Use the trending in Nagios to help re-plan or improve. If he won;t then, just start using ICMP to monitor lag times, Nagios can be used to check services as well like SMTP, DNS etc...
It is cheap it works and is as passive as possible if he won't cooperate.
Luck man.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
|
Post #171,028
8/26/04 10:18:15 AM
|
Ditto
We love Nagios here.
|
Post #171,034
8/26/04 11:38:15 AM
|
What is the problem?
Reading between the lines, it sounds like you had some network outages and people are rightfully upset about them. Their natural response is to ask for monitoring and prioritization tools. Their actual need is to have a reliable network.
If I'm being asked to give insight into what I'm doing, my inclination is to give the monitoring that is easy to give, give some transparency into what is happening behind the scenes, but focus time and effort on making things reliable. The trap that you want to avoid is spending all of your time attending to minutia of questions from someone without a clue while not having time and resources to address the real problems. (All the while knowing that if the real problems were solved, you wouldn't be being given the fifth degree.)
Ignore this point of view if the incompetence of the people who are supposed to be fixing the situation is your real problem.
Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
|
Post #171,051
8/26/04 12:11:11 PM
|
That's what I thought
Barry could tell you the details of a recent issue I had. Suffice it to say I thought if I could fix the problem the questions would stop. They didn't. It's a trust issue.
I just realized it's like OSS. Someone who uses Windows has no idea how it works. It just does. Until it doesn't. Then they want to know why. They're really not equipped to understand the answer. Then the local OSS evangelist comes along and says that if you've got the code you know what it's doing. The decision maker still isn't equipped to understand what he's seeing, but knowing that the information is available boosts trust.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
|
Post #171,058
8/26/04 12:58:41 PM
|
Use the source, Drook.
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
|
Post #171,069
8/26/04 3:00:07 PM
|
It has worked for me
The questions don't just stop. They slowly trail off as people forget.
It helps to establish a track record of proactively informing people when there might be a problem, and proactively informing people when you catch any existing problem (particularly if you caused it). Then they can find comfort in the fact that when things go wrong, you are their monitoring system.
Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
|
Post #171,133
8/26/04 7:33:00 PM
|
Speaking of which
What happened?
Send email
|
