IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Could use some help folks.
Here's the story. My company has merged with another and been bought by another etc. As a result, we are now part of a multinational publishing and educational behemoth (Pearson PLC owns us). We, however, are one of the few consistently profitable pieces of the corp. Because of this, we get a degree of latitude in the direction our IT infrastucture takes. My boss has been having an ongoing battle with a higher level suit over the use of linux. The higher level guy has been in charge of a money-losing portion of the corp for 5 years now. His argument is that we don't have the trained people needed to support linux so we stay with windows. My boss is supremely unimpressed with this argument. From a practicle point of view, he has seen how linux has saved money for us in the long run. What I am asking for from the crew is pointers to real world examples of the cost benefits of Linux. Any links to documented, successful linux migrations, charts or graphs showing improvements to the bottom line as a result of using Linux, etc. Horror stories about MS costing too much will be helpful also.

Cost/benefit, ROI, profit and loss; these are the kinds of things I'm looking for. So, what links, mailing lists and online/print publications do you suggest in this search for ammunition?
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Not more than a few days old.
Amazon just completed a migration to Linux, saving millions of dollars.
Regards,

-scott anderson
New Already sent him that one
He also has the Gartner group report about switching away from MS due to virus vulnerability.

Thanks though.
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Intel: $200,000,000 saved with Linux
The [link|http://www.theinquirer.net/31100110.htm|Inquirer story]. Short on details, but impressive numbers. I'd look for specifics elsewhere.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
New Yeowh!
Two hundred million? Two hundred million? Two hundred million?

Why would anyone use anything else?

Thanks
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Licensing vs training
It all boils down to what do you do with the machines. Are the apps available under linux and fairly usable with your as is personnel. If that is the case money saved on licensing can be spent on user training with the ROI being higher productivity because of system stability. On the other hand if you have a stable, mature(definition that the software is not likely to need to change anytime soon.) installed windoze base there is no financial incentive to move to linux now.
thanx,
bill
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
New Windows 2000 is on its way
We are supposed to migrate to a 2000 network along with the client systems in a few months and my boss is trying to get linux use expanded instead. Significant expense to get all the systems up to hardware levels that 2000 can live with.
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Good luck!
I went through that at my last job.

The VP had already made up his mind to dump NetWare and Linux ("Heh, heh. They were running servers on P200's. Now we have real servers." And he is right. Those P200's are gone. Replaced with quad 800''s or better.)

If you can get the focus shifted to MONEY!!!, then your battle is over.

Just show that a Linux training class costs $1000 (or there abouts), while a Windows server license costs more (depending upon the number of people accessing it).

Then, project into the future, based off of your past experiences.

When did you move to NT?
Win2000?
WinXP?

How much was paid in licensing?

With Linux, you don't pay for licensing.
And you'll have to pay for training in either case.

I just hope that you have someone who can listen to a monetary discussion rather than trying to inflate his resume with "migrated existing legacy systems to World Class infrastructure".

Did I mention that my old company is laying off lots of people and having the worst sales year ever?
New Re: Could use some help folks.
Some [link|http://varbusiness.com/|VAR Business] links:

[link|http://vb.channelsupersearch.com/news/VAR/25366.asp|Linux at Work]

[link|http://vb.channelsupersearch.com/news/VAR/25267.asp|The Real Cost Of Adopting Linux.]
Alex

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
New Thankee
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Query - who is going to move to Linux?
And what for? There's a huge difference between putting the secretary on Linux and the development staff on Linux.

(Currently have developers? Currently using Unix?)
New Not so much a move to linux
As convincing the idiot suits from above to not move us away from linux. One of the braindead ones from headquarters said "I don't think this can be a sustainable business model" talking about our use of linux on the boxen we send out to our customers. (Proprietary stuff developed out of the PLATO system, details upon request). My boss gave him the response "Seeing as we have had 30 percent annual growth for the last 4 years using this model, and have been profitable for the last 25 I'd say it is sustainable."

Suits just need to piss on something to get their smell on it so they can take credit later on for any success.

And no, the 25 years of profit is not a typo. It took us the first 5 years to get in and stay in the black. :-) We just may be the oldest application service provider in existence.
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Do they realize the licensing issues?
You would be attempting to transfer license rights of a machine from yourselves to your customers.

IIRC, that is NOT ALLOWED under Microsoft rules of engagement. In which case, you would have to RAISE PRICES in order to make the change. If you couldn't RAISE PRICES to cover the INCREASED COSTS...you will make LESS PROFIT.

That should take care of the accountants...and put it in the hands of the lawyers...and tie it up in red tape for years.

You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New We still hold the license
The customers pay a fee for our product. The product includes a local machine using proprietary communications protocals for access to the master database and lesson repository at our location. The box we send them is still ours.
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New A good read...
...of the license of MS W2k Pro or XP Pro by the folks in your legal department really should be all it takes to resist the change.
Especially when you get into anonymous applications...then you need this...but if you use authentication services you need that times the number of users...etc...as an example...just a little [link|http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/server/howtobuy/pricing/icfaq.asp|FAQ].

Linux is a no brainer...unlimited users and freely distributable with NO license issues.


You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Thanks
Excellent points. I'll make sure the boss man gets this info.
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New From the most unexpected places
[link|http://www.infoworld.com/articles/fe/xml/01/10/29/011029fecase.xml|Infoworld] has a little experience report.
New Thanks for YAEOHLCSYMCTM
(Yet Another Example Of How Linux Can Save You Money Compared To Microsoft)
Don Richards,
Proud recipient of the ABBA.
New Another story from Linuxuser.co.uk (via VARLinux)
[link|http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue15/lu15-smoothiron.html|Here]. It's the story of an ISP which replaced a server farm with an IBM zSeries with Linux. Maybe not quite what you're looking for, but...

Telia Net saw that by using this solution it could save time and money. "The (virtual) machines are completely independent," Laking points out. "This is why consolidating multiple physical servers on to Linux on zSeries can be so attractive to many businesses. If you take the typical paradigm of one app per server that you get with NT and indeed with many Unix servers, you can just map that directly on to a virtual server environment. Each virtual server running Linux can be running exactly the same as it would on a physical server."

[...]

Since IBM s zSeries 64-bit z/Architecture machines only became available at the end of last year, the machine currently in place is a 31-bit addressing, S/390 server with 12 processors. SuSE is the flavour of Linux that was chosen. "There was no particular reason to choose SuSE. Red Hat was another good option, but we had to choose one," Wulff Riedl says diplomatically. Telia Net has around 1500 virtual servers running on the hardware at present, which already represents a significant money saving as compared with a non-virtual implementation. "We have made a cost calculation and we think that a virtual server running on this mainframe system is about 10 per cent of the cost of running on the different platforms," says Wulff Riedl. "So we are able to make a cost reduction of around 75-90 per cent."

This claim is backed up by Laking's findings: "Even at the 25-30 physical server point it starts to make sense to virtualise on the mainframe, but the moment you start to talk about 100 servers or more then the savings really do become substantial. So that figure of 10 per cent I find completely believable."

Indeed, the cost savings attributed to the mainframe deployment come from many different areas. Doug Neilson, a systems consultant for IBM enterprise systems, explains that savings can come from unlikely sources: "A lot of the savings are going to be on infrastructure, space, power and cooling - it's ironic that what used to be labelled as the mainframe dinosaur now uses dramatically less power in cooling than a typical server farm. If you think about a typical Intel server consuming, lets say a Kilowatt, well the biggest z900 mainframe consumes around 15KW and is capable of functionally replacing a couple of thousand NT servers, so the cost savings in power can be dramatic. Just on electricity power savings the mainframe cost can be justified."

"One of the major savings is in manpower," says Laking. "You do not need as many people to manage this environment because of the ability to virtualise and to build infrastructure using a mixture of Linux system management tools and VM tools. As a combination you can pick and choose and what you end up with once you've done all the automation is something that is much, much easier to manage." Updates to the system are easily shared, one update can be performed and the whole system can be updated from this one copy, if required. As Neilson explains, systems management is also made easier: "It can be a Linux application, so it can be a graphical interface or the customer can drop down to the next level to talk to the VM OS if they have the skills and use tools on the VM environment. But mainly it's an automated software process, so much so that they can create a series of empty servers and have them ready to go."


(Emphasis added.)

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
     Could use some help folks. - (Silverlock) - (18)
         Not more than a few days old. - (admin) - (3)
             Already sent him that one - (Silverlock)
             Intel: $200,000,000 saved with Linux - (kmself) - (1)
                 Yeowh! - (Silverlock)
         Licensing vs training - (boxley) - (2)
             Windows 2000 is on its way - (Silverlock) - (1)
                 Good luck! - (Brandioch)
         Re: Could use some help folks. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
             Thankee -NT - (Silverlock)
         Query - who is going to move to Linux? - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
             Not so much a move to linux - (Silverlock) - (4)
                 Do they realize the licensing issues? - (bepatient) - (3)
                     We still hold the license - (Silverlock) - (2)
                         A good read... - (bepatient) - (1)
                             Thanks - (Silverlock)
         From the most unexpected places - (tuberculosis) - (1)
             Thanks for YAEOHLCSYMCTM - (Silverlock)
         Another story from Linuxuser.co.uk (via VARLinux) - (Another Scott)

Gotta catch 'em all!
65 ms