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New Did it convert you to devfs?
-drl
New No, it did not. UDEV.
UDEV works once you configure it. But as of right now it is hit or miss with UDEV OOTB with Defaults. Any Distro is that way right now.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New Should I hold off on my daily apt-get upgrade?
What will I break if I do it? Currently unstable.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New The Debian Unstable Dichotomy
At any given point in time, there are three branches of the Debian system:

Stable (Current version: 3.0, "Woody")
This is the official released version of the software. Guaranteed not to change except for bug and security fixes.

Testing (Current version: "Sarge")
Testing is what eventually migrates to being Stable. While the fundamentals tend to work, Testing experiences periodic large-scale change; examples include new versions of GNOME or KDE entering the branch all at once. By definition, Testing has newer software than Stable, but also by definition, it is not the released product and may have problems.

Unstable (No version, always "Sid")
This branch causes no end of confusion. The "Unstable" moniker doesn't imply that the software itself is unstable; it means instead that the Debian aspects of the packages are unstable. Subject to change. Liable to explode without good cause or explanation. You WILL get the latest shiny toys by running Unstable, but there's a price to pay - and that price is periodic severe breakage, potentially at the system level.

I heard a good description of what it means to run Unstable (source lost, sorry): "If you're not happy running a system where mgetty can break, then you shouldn't be running Unstable. If you didn't understand that last sentence, you shouldn't be running Unstable. If you don't know what Unstable is, you shouldn't be running Unstable. If you don't know whether you should be running Unstable or not, you shouldn't be running Unstable."

Debian is a tradeoff. If you want stuff to work reliably and consistently and forever and ever amen, Stable is approaching that VMS-like Zen state. You pay the price for that in version numbers.

Testing is more up-to-date; Debian expects Testing to work. If stuff breaks in testing, that's a real bug. On the other hand, Testing is like the 80s - old enough to be unhip, not old enough to be retro.

Unstable is where the cool kids play, and it's where the latest stuff is, and it's also liable to break without warning and you get to keep all the pieces.

I spend a lot of time on #debian on irc.debian.org and it's frustrating to see people who get the glint of GNOME 2.6 in their eye yet are not comfortable configuring GRUB trying to wrestle with the fact that (for hypothetical example), their system has upgraded itself to Peter's Super Dev Daemon and all their devices now live in /PeterIsYourGod and they can't play MP3s in xmms any more.

It's harsh, but that's the way it has to be. I consider Debian to be like Mozilla - it's a demonstrator of all the cool things that the Debian project can do, but it's not necessarily something you'd want to run; instead, you might favour something built on Debian that makes use of all the supercool infrastructure in a more user-friendly manner. This is what Xandros and Lindows and Libranet and Knoppix have done.

So, in answer to your question: Yes, you should hold off. Make use of the -s switch to apt-get. Use tools like apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges to understand what's going to happen to your system.

As a user with presumably better things to do (like, say, idling on MUDs) than picking the bits out of a broken upgrade, I think you'll be served well by my advice.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Oh yes, *much* better things to do
Like 'apt-get install deb_help_gfolkert' and whine to him. I've been running unstable on two boxes for (probably) over a year and have avoided major breakage simply by looking to see if he's mentioned anything here before executing the upgrade. It's almost like having a real sysadmin responsible for my system.






Insert signs as appropriate.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Underscores are illegal in package names :-)
Oh dear.

That's a sign of fearful Debian nerdery.

On a more serious note, you're lucky; you have access to a number of people (me, Greg, etc) who are capable and willing to help you out, and you have this odd obsession with having a working system which leads you to investigate whether things are going to break.

Many of the eejits out there running unstable because it gives them shiny toys don't have that luxury.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New You fail to mention those Sheeple that...
Include experimental stuff and expect them to just WORK as well.

First thing, what does the term [link|http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=experimental|"experimental"] mean? (please observe definition #2)

Second based on that definition, what does that imply? [link|http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=breakage|Major Borkage]

So, many people just fly in the face of absolutely knowing it *WILL* break.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New So, should I upgrade unstable now, or will that break it?
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Yes. As long as you are not using
a 2.6.x kernel.

If you are using a 2.6.x kernel, remove UDEV.

Manually create the devices you might need for the devices you have, unless you already have them.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New Ok, since building devices by hand is a little beyond me ...
I guess I'll wait until the borkage is fixed, or get on jabber if I have time tonight. Thanks.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New umm... okay.
MAKEDEV std (gives you the standard ones mostly needed)
MAKEDEV hdX (a-z,aa-zz,aaa-zzz) (give you the first 20 partitions of any hd* you want)

man MAKEDEV

Will fix you up, purty dern easy.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New Wait till he gets onto Jabber.
You can tell him how to do it directly, inbetween his fits of idling.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New MAKEDEV doesn't know:
mem or random, at the very least, because I tried.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New With UDEV, MAKEDEV it is DUMB as a box of ROCKS.
It write to the disk rather than the UDEV Filesystem ontop of it.

Or someone on one of the Debian lists likes to point out using MAKEDEV on a UDEV Filesystem should just delete all devices. And force a reboot or disaster or both.

MAKEDEV in Debian is supposed to know about UDEV and refuse to make any.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New The fact that I have *no clue* what you're talking about ...
... proves to me I shouldn't try it myself.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New One word of caution.
$EDITOR /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-data.config


Comment out lines: 1045, 1070 (bareword previous_module; when using strict_subs)

That will take care of any problem you will experience, with 3 packages being unconfigured.

HTH!
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
New Oh, sure ... *now* it's clear :-/
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New No, I just did...
a second update for the day as I saw a bug I was going to report was fixed and this one showed up.

I gave you the answer... for the fix.

Run along little boy, go whine to your mama. Or on Jabber.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

I've decided to become a perfectionist.
That way I'll have more reasons to hate people.
Your recycled electrons annoy me. Please use new electrons.
     Debian upgrade woes - (admin) - (22)
         Did it convert you to devfs? -NT - (deSitter) - (17)
             No, it did not. UDEV. - (folkert) - (16)
                 Should I hold off on my daily apt-get upgrade? - (drewk) - (15)
                     The Debian Unstable Dichotomy - (pwhysall) - (14)
                         Oh yes, *much* better things to do - (drewk) - (1)
                             Underscores are illegal in package names :-) - (pwhysall)
                         You fail to mention those Sheeple that... - (folkert) - (11)
                             So, should I upgrade unstable now, or will that break it? -NT - (drewk) - (10)
                                 Yes. As long as you are not using - (folkert) - (9)
                                     Ok, since building devices by hand is a little beyond me ... - (drewk) - (8)
                                         umm... okay. - (folkert) - (7)
                                             Wait till he gets onto Jabber. - (pwhysall)
                                             MAKEDEV doesn't know: - (admin) - (5)
                                                 With UDEV, MAKEDEV it is DUMB as a box of ROCKS. - (folkert) - (4)
                                                     The fact that I have *no clue* what you're talking about ... - (drewk) - (3)
                                                         One word of caution. - (folkert) - (2)
                                                             Oh, sure ... *now* it's clear :-/ -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                 No, I just did... - (folkert)
         Install Hotplug or discover, of course you realize - (folkert) - (3)
             UDEV was already installed previously - (admin) - (2)
                 ... - (folkert) - (1)
                     Removing udev "fixed" it. - (admin)

If I'm trying to do something that stupid, strong typing is the least of my problems.
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