Now if only they'd put out a decent 3-button mouse

Post #15,729 by wharris2 10/30/01 11:38:58 AM Reply	Now if only they'd put out a decent 3-button mouse I've yet to find anything better than the old Logitech Mouseman mice. Alas, Logitech appears to have jettisoned that line in favor of mostly wheel mice; the one three-button mouse they still have in their catalog just isn't as comfortable. The Microsoft wheel mice just don't hack it. (Yes, I know that stupid wheel can be used as a third mouse button, but it still isn't as good as a true third button.) "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #15,745 by inthane-chan 10/30/01 12:27:01 PM Reply	The funny thing is... ...I had a three button mouse. I just COULD NOT get used to it. I couldn't figure out which finger to hit the middle button with... For some reason, the wheel works a lot better for me. Adds another "axis" - okay, it's really two buttons that can be clicked over and over easily. The Intellimouse Explorer adds two thumb buttons on the left side, which work quite nicely, thankyewverymuch. Counter-Strike config: Button1 - fire Button2 - alt-fire Wheel - weapon select Button3 (Wheel button) - say_team "Bomb is here!" Button4 - say_team "Need backup!" (Not that anybody ever responds...) Button5 - Swap around Button4 message for something else. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #15,753 by pwhysall 10/30/01 1:20:15 PM Reply	Re: The funny thing is... CS config: Button 1 = fire Button 2 = walk Button 3 (middle) = reload Button 4 = throw HE Button 5 = throw FB Wheel = weapon select. The Intellimouse Explorer is The King Of Mice, and on that point I shall brook no argument. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #15,762 by tonytib 10/30/01 2:34:45 PM Reply	Nope, because it ain't cordless I don't give a damn about playing games. However, after experiencing the wireless optical Logitech, I won't go back to corded again. Maybe the "Wireless Intellimouse Explorer" is the best mouse, but I won't be spending $75 to find out. Of course, if you send me one to keep, I'll do a head to head comparision review. Finally, mice are like keyboards -- different people find different shapes more comfortable. Based on my past experience, I'm not sure I'd like the shape of the Intellimouse Explorer (I don't care for the shape of some of Logitech's mice, either). Tony
Post #15,802 by Ashton 10/30/01 7:56:02 PM Reply	Inevitable pitch for the perfect device.. Trackman Marble (haven't tried the wheeled variant). Smooth as a baby's butt; clean the fuzz out periodically. Fits hand as if cast for it - except for Lefties; scandalous that they saw fit not to make a mirror LH one. Even w/notebook - the marble goes too; those idiot pencil-eraser thingies demonstrated conclusively: computer users often possess neither cuth nor a sense of outrage. [/the unbiased report] Ashton
Post #15,833 by Meerkat 10/31/01 12:35:02 AM Reply	Meerkat goes 'Me Too!' And again professes his love for the input device of wonder and beauty that is the Logitech Trackman Marble. All hail, etc, etc. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #15,836 by tonytib 10/31/01 1:15:36 AM Reply	I've used them all and it's very personal -- MY ratings Well, not all the brands, but quite a variety of touchscreens, trackballs, pointer sticks, touchpads, graphics tablets, etc (I don't recall using a light pen, though). I'm not much into joysticks, especially for cursor movement! Here are my ratings and comments: Best overall pointing device -- Logitech mice. I've used a fair number of MS mice, too (including plain Intellimouse), but prefer Logitech's shape and performance. Mice are pretty decent in clean rooms, too. (Typing is clean rooms is fun, too -- I can actually sort of touch type if I wear tight gloves). Best for intricate graphics manipulations -- Wacom graphics tablet; it's a lifesaver sometimes in Photoshop, but I don't like it as a general pointing device. Trackballs -- best I've felt was a $100 CH industrial model with a huge ball (demo only unfortunately). I've used quite a few, including Logitech and Qtronix, but still much prefer the mouse. Their compact size can be handy, but using them in a clean room (gloves on) leaves a lot to be desired. Pointer stick / touchpads -- these can really run the range; they can be better than cheesy trackballs (e.g. tiny Zenith laptop trackballs), but never as good as a mouse. On my old TI laptop, I didn't care for the pointer stick. On my old Compaq Armada, the touchpad was pretty good. On the current HP laptop, I prefer the pointer stick over the touchpad. On the Compaq / HP laptops the touch pad / pointer stick was very usable, but not as good as a good trackball or mouse. Touchscreens -- great for doing "soft buttons" and stuff where you need to trigger actions but not enter a lot of data, e.g. often quite good for industrial equipment. Most work quite well in a clean room environment. Also works quite well with Palm. Using a fingertip they're no good for precise cursor movements. Voice -- tried it with Warp 4, went back to keyboard and mouse. Tony Who was spent way too much time programming in clean rooms
Post #15,936 by Meerkat 10/31/01 6:15:26 PM Reply	I can thank the 'Pointer Stick' for one thing... ...and that's for teaching me enough keyboard shortcuts in Windows so I never had to use the blasted thing. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #15,971 by ben_tilly 10/31/01 10:15:09 PM Reply	I prefer it to a touchpad though
Post #15,873 by wharris2 10/31/01 11:50:30 AM Reply	Inevitable shudder Never met a trackball I've liked. "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #15,930 by Ashton 10/31/01 5:38:43 PM Reply	Perhaps you have two thumbs on each hand?________________:-\ufffd
Post #16,101 by wharris2 11/1/01 5:12:28 PM Reply	Heh. My ability to control those blasted trackballs certainly appears to support the two thumbs on each hand theory. "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #15,838 by inthane-chan 10/31/01 1:37:15 AM Reply	Wireless Explorer blows chunks. People inside MS are having all kinds of jumpiness with it - don't get one. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #15,839 by tonytib 10/31/01 2:09:23 AM Reply	Logitech wireless is good unless you really hide the xmitter I have both a cordless (for desktop computers) and corded (for laptop) Logitechs, and the cordless has been excellent -- and I love not having the tail. However, the one time the wireless one was acting flaky I uncovered and moved the base unit and it's been fine since. Right now, I've got about three feet between the mouse and the base unit. Tony
Post #15,880 by cforde 10/31/01 12:36:32 PM Reply	I use a wireless Logitech with my laptop I often give presentations and it's quite a treat to be able to stand near the screen talking about some point and be able to flip between slides as needed. Range from mouse to receiver sometimes is easily 9 feet. No problem. I also have a Remotepoint mouse, but I've never used it 'cause I don't feel the need to change mice, or the benefit of carrying two. My only complaint, and I can barely call it that, is I'd like longer battery life. Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #16,118 by tseliot 11/1/01 7:31:42 PM Reply	The topic that wouldn't die My CS config: 1st button: Fire 2nd button: Crouch (much easier than left pinky, 'specially crouch-jump et al combos) 3rd button (wheel click): Weapon secondary function. The reason this works well is the realization that, for the most part, when you select the alt-weapon button, you're probably not going to simultaneously click the Fire button. So I can use my index finger on buttons 1 and 3 as needed. Wheel roll: nothing. I've got hud_fastswitch on, why would I want a weapon roller? It helps that I've got keyboard '4' bound to HE's only, '6' to Flash, and '7' to Smoke. Check out our (under construction--adding more all the time; should be done by Dec 1st) [link\|http://www.aminus.net\|clan page] for more fun stuff, thane. [::A-::] FuManChu --------------------------------- A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly by the chain of their own ideas;...despair and time eat away the bonds of iron and steel, but they are powerless against the habitual union of ideas, they can only tighten it still more; and on the soft fibres of the brain is founded the unshakable base of the soundest of Empires." Jacques Servan, 1767
Post #16,119 by Ashton 11/1/01 7:34:13 PM Reply	..politics, religion, mice - what else IS there?
Post #16,154 by pwhysall 11/2/01 2:29:41 AM Reply	Ash, Ash, Ash. This isn't mice. This is Counter-Strike, which is much more important than all that waffy religion and politics stuff. You ch34t0r! Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #16,160 by Ashton 11/2/01 5:59:56 AM Reply	Ah!____ I see______________uhHuh er jolly good just so long as you keep the Real priorities straight - Next time you're riding through Stevenage (Herts.), remember to salute for me.. as you pass the site of the former Vincent works :( {sniff}
Post #16,153 by pwhysall 11/2/01 2:28:01 AM Reply	Re: The topic that wouldn't die I'm thinking of moving my reload button off the mouse. Many are the times when I've killed an enemy, leaving 20 rounds in the clip, reloaded, and been jumped by the buddy I didn't know he had - who I can't shoot because I'm reloading :\\ [MwG]MunkeeShines Counter-Terrorist For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #16,183 by tseliot 11/2/01 11:14:51 AM Reply	That's why God invented hud_fastswitch :) --------------------------------- A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly by the chain of their own ideas;...despair and time eat away the bonds of iron and steel, but they are powerless against the habitual union of ideas, they can only tighten it still more; and on the soft fibres of the brain is founded the unshakable base of the soundest of Empires." Jacques Servan, 1767
Post #16,192 by inthane-chan 11/2/01 12:01:14 PM Reply	DEagle is the best backup. Actually, according to the stats machine here at the MS internal game servers, fully 1/3 of my kills are DEagle kills. Breakdown: 34.3% kills by DEagle 29.9% by M4A1 15.3% by Sig SG-552 Commando (A new favorite of mine - I'm doing a lot of snipin' with this recently.) 5.1% by H&K MP5 Navy (I've stopped using this in favor of the DEagle - I do better with the DEagle) 3.6% by H&K USP .45 Tactical 2.9% by HE grenade 2.9% by FN P90 (I pick them up occasionally when somebody spends too much money to take on my DEagle...) 1.5% by Benelli XM1014 (Used to really like this gun - then realized I wasn't hitting anybody with it, and it cost a lot more than the DEagle anyways.) And a smattering of other stuff not worth recounting. Like the fact that I've never bought an AWP, but I've gotten about 6 kills with them... "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #16,204 by tseliot 11/2/01 1:01:16 PM Reply	The accuracy of the MP5 is now zero with advent of CS 1.3 :( --------------------------------- A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly by the chain of their own ideas;...despair and time eat away the bonds of iron and steel, but they are powerless against the habitual union of ideas, they can only tighten it still more; and on the soft fibres of the brain is founded the unshakable base of the soundest of Empires." Jacques Servan, 1767
Post #16,237 by inthane-chan 11/2/01 2:28:56 PM Reply	Actually, I stopped using it during 1.2. - Go fig. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #16,256 by pwhysall 11/2/01 4:21:17 PM Reply	p228 ownz the Deagle. Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #16,264 by inthane-chan 11/2/01 5:01:45 PM Reply	Really? I tried one, couldn't hit the broad side of an AOL CD pile with it... "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #16,294 by pwhysall 11/2/01 11:23:17 PM Reply	I see yer Deagle. I see yer 7 round clip. I see ya miss me as I bounce around like the energizer bunny. I see yer reloading. I shoot0r j00! Yeah, the 228 pwns. Ya just need practice with it. The deagle is like the awp, a gun for people who can't shoot. Real men use the p228 and the scout :-) Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #16,674 by inthane-chan 11/5/01 4:42:50 PM Reply	Funny... I've never been shot down reloading my DEagle. I'll give the P228 a try or two and see how I do - but I think it has something to do with my style... Config 1: (Gun round) T: Deagle, sometimes full ammo (depends on who I'm going up against, how many are on my team, etc - don't waste money on a full load if you're not going to use it. The Glock sucks, so you pretty much have to buy something else if you want to do any damage.) CT: Body armor+'nade if I can jack it. Config 2: (Cheap combo) T/CT: Deagle, Full Body Armor, Full Ammo, HE or Flash 'nade. I generally get 2-3 kills with this combo, then accidentally pick up somebody's gun as I'm charging around the corner, and get whacked while the "activation" animation plays out. Note that if I pick up somebody's gun, wait for the animation to play out, and THEN go around the corner, I still tend to get whacked. I call it The Curse. Config 3: ($$$ combo) CT: M4A1, Deagle, Full Body Armor, as many 'nades as I can carry, and all the ammo. I carry the DEagle in case I happen to actually empty a clip while in a potentially nasty situation - you wouldn't believe how many I take down with the DEagle while they're reloading. Usually I can get 2-3 kills per clip with the M4A1, so this doesn't happen unless I experience a "Pulp Fiction" moment... T: Replace M4A1 with SG-552. Sit back at long range, pick people off with the occasional headshot. For some reason, I've had moderate success snipin' with a DEagle occasionally, but I prefer the SG-552 for that... So my guess would be that you would suggest replacing combo #2 and maybe #1 with the 228. The problem is, I play with a bunch of people who have honed their headshot skills to the insane (yep, no cheats, we've had people watching them play, and they still do really !$!%! spiffy) so when I run into them, I have to take them down ASAP, and waiting for them to run out of ammo is Not An Option. (Quote about Bashful, server operator and player - "Bash doesn't camp, he sets up a tent, gets a fire going, and then roasts yer weenie over it with his legendary AWP skills.") "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #15,832 by static 10/31/01 12:33:01 AM Reply	Logitech loveliness. I have a Logitech MouseMan+ on one of my PCs and it's a fine mouse indeed. But you have a point about the wheel; always feels strange to press it like a middle button. Truth is, I like the wheel more. As regards MS mice, I used to use a 200 dpi serial soap-bar shaped MS mouse. Very nice. This was when 400dpi mice first appeared and everyone started mousing at ridiculously high sensitivities. I eventually wore it out. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

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