It now looks like the CIA and intelligence pushed this

Post #153,374 by bluke 5/2/04 6:20:19 AM Reply	It now looks like the CIA and intelligence pushed this [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html?hp\|Officer Suggests Iraq Jail Abuse Was Encouraged] "An Army Reserve general whose soldiers were photographed as they abused Iraqi prisoners said Saturday that she knew nothing about the abuse until weeks after it occurred and that she was "sickened" by the pictures. She said the prison cellblock where the abuse occurred was under the tight control of Army military intelligence officers who may have encouraged the abuse. The suggestion by Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski that the reservists acted at the behest of military intelligence officers appears largely supported in a still-classified Army report on prison conditions in Iraq that documented many of the worst abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison, west of Baghdad, including the sexual humiliation of prisoners."
Post #153,396 by JayMehaffey 5/2/04 1:40:14 PM Reply	We will probably never know how much We will probably never know how much the intelligence groups pushed this to happen. Between the secrecy and cover up of the intelligence groups and the the soldiers playing it up for legal defense, it will be hard to get any idea who really suggested what. There also seems to be an interesting problem with civilian contractors here. Some of the abuse was apparently inflicted by civilian contractors who are not subject to military law. Instead they where handed back to their company and the company told to deal with it. Jay
Post #153,440 by deSitter 5/2/04 9:32:59 PM Reply	An army dishonorably used, will behave dishonorably This is proven again and again. One of the worst aspects of this horrible needless war is the dishonor that is certain to fall on the armed services. -drl
Post #153,430 by a6l6e6x 5/2/04 8:52:31 PM Reply	Or, perhaps another source. [link\|http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3702655/\|U.S. employs Israeli tactics in Iraq]. The British newspaper The Guardian recently reported Israeli advisers are training U.S. soldiers at Fort Bragg, N.C. Lt. Col. Hans Bush, of the U.S. Army\ufffds Special Operations Command, said there are no Israeli forces \ufffdcurrently teaching Army Special Operations Command forces at Fort Bragg.\ufffd I guess "currently" means that the training is done and they've gone back. Last week, a large delegation from the Army Training and Doctrine Command in Fort Monroe, Va., visited Israel. Harvey Perritt, the command\ufffds civilian spokesman, said the meeting was routine, but would not elaborate. The Israeli army said in a statement it does not comment on \ufffdongoing strategic cooperation between the U.S. and the Israeli military.\ufffd But military officials close to the sides, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the meetings focused on lessons learned from Israel\ufffds fighting in the West Bank and Gaza and how to adapt them to Iraq. Given that Israel is the only beneficary of the war in Iraq, it all makes sense. Alex There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Post #153,461 by bluke 5/3/04 1:11:04 AM Reply	Amazing Is there anything that happens in the world that is not connected to Israel and the Jews? The Jews already run the US what country is next? You should go to Egypt, you could then watch the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on TV.
Post #153,463 by JayMehaffey 5/3/04 1:41:09 AM Reply	Not in the middle east In all probablity there is no significant national event in which the Jews where not a significant factor. Even if none of the parties involved are Jewish, Israel remains one of the major poltical factors in the region. To be honest though, I find the idea that the people doing the torture got their ideas from Jewish advisors rather absurd. Considering that the US already as a dedicated school for teaching torture and abuse methods and a large number of Latin American experts to draw on, there would be no reason to get help from Israel I imagine the Israeli advisors where there giving the Americans tips on how to handle middle eastern street fighting. It would explain the sudden apperance of the bulldozer methodology. Jay
Post #153,563 by JayMehaffey 5/3/04 6:26:11 PM Reply	Re: Amazing [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/03/international/middleeast/03ABUS.html?pagewanted=2\|NY Times] The report identifies Col. Thomas M. Pappas, commander of the 205th military intelligence brigade, Lt. Col. Steven L. Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center and Liaison Officer to the 205th Military intelligence Brigade, Steven Stephanowicz, an Army contract employee from CACI, and John *Israel*, a contractor and civilian interpreter with CACI, as the people suspected of being "either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib." Emphasis added. See right there, Israel was deeply involved in this. Jay runs away. Jay
Post #153,567 by inthane-chan 5/3/04 6:39:50 PM Reply	/me runs after jay with the clue-by-four.
Post #153,755 by Arkadiy 5/4/04 4:36:24 PM Reply	This is not funny Jews commanding Americans to torture Arabs. This is exactly how it will be interpreted. When I heard "Stephanowicz" and "Israel" on the radio, I went cold. Those shlemazls had to go get a job interrogating Iraqis? -- Buy high, sell sober.
Post #153,765 by jb4 5/4/04 5:58:24 PM Reply	You ARE forgetting The Sign, aren't you? Because if you're not, you're a damn fool! (Besides Stephanowicz spelled that way is Polish.) jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #153,822 by Arkadiy 5/5/04 8:51:43 AM Reply	No, no Sign This is exactly how it will be percieved, believe it or not. -- Buy high, sell sober.
Post #153,462 by bluke 5/3/04 1:11:19 AM Reply	Amazing Is there anything that happens in the world that is not connected to Israel and the Jews? The Jews already run the US what country is next? You should go to Egypt, you could then watch the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on TV.
Post #153,467 by bluke 5/3/04 7:43:47 AM Reply	Considering that the US has trained torture squads ... in Latin America for decades I don't think that they need any help in that area.

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