Post #152,358
4/23/04 12:20:05 PM
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Is programming dead?
The goal of MDA is quite straightforward: to enable applications to be specified entirely in modelling terms, which are platform independent, rather than in code, which varies depending on the target architecture. From the OMG\ufffds perspective this is largely a boon for application integrators, who spend (nay, waste) time converting perfectly good code to work on different systems. As it is defined, MDA enables such lower level programming to be automated by code generators, freeing up time to be spent on the more interesting stuff \ufffd the business logic.
[link|http://www.silicon.com/comment/0,39024711,39120223,00.htm|source] Maybe it's the question many of us don't want to have to face...? lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #152,364
4/23/04 12:58:32 PM
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Programming is still there
It's just at a different level of abstraction, and the user interface changes. Personally, I don't think modelling has made any significant strides in dealing with complexity - either on an IT or engineering level. No examples beyond expert type systems are given in the article.
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Post #152,365
4/23/04 12:59:01 PM
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What I need.
Is for this industry to last 11 years and 37 more days. After that, I hope it (all of IT) disappears off the face of the earth and never returns. Computer technology has been a net negative on society imNSho.
I know "complete disapperance" is not possible, but I'm planning to take every piece of computer technology I can to the dump on May 31, 2015. I know this: After May 31, 2015 I will become a member of the Lead Pencil Society and never look back. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
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Post #152,378
4/23/04 2:09:58 PM
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They have been promising that for 40 years
COBOL brochures said pretty much the same thing in the early 60's, and Fortran brochures before that.
See also: [link|http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?CodeGenerationIsaDesignSmell|http://www.c2.com/cg...ionIsaDesignSmell]
What exactly are "modeling terms"? Graphics? So far graphic modeling has proven limited despite being tried for more than 2 decades. Eventually things like Boolean expressions and references to things that don't fit on the same screen are needed. When that happens, you end up with code in the end anyhow, or perhaps a visual parse-tree, which looks suspiciously like indented code turned horizontal.
I smell snake oil.
If anything will kill off programming, it will be starving world-wide programmers who work for 30-cents an hour.
________________
oop.ismad.com
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Post #152,384
4/23/04 3:05:50 PM
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As a viable profession in the US - I'll say yes.
I personally think I'm washed up.
I'm actively looking for a new career and I've stopped looking for computer work.
50% of my time I'm unemployed and frankly I could give a fuck what the new POS library/technology/OS/hardware/methodology/system architecture retread is.
I've been at this too long and am halfway through the third loop. Nothing changes or improves and the average practitioner/manager is a clueless fuck weasel.
Game Over.
Bye.
Democracies are not well-run nor long-preserved with secrecy and lies.
--Walter Cronkite
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Post #152,390
4/23/04 3:32:45 PM
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Damn.
Guess I'm just lucky.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #158,355
6/4/04 4:28:38 AM
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Not lucky - still under 40
I suspect that unless to migrate to managerial masturbation in the next 10 years you'll start hitting the age wall. It's very real and no one is doing anything about it.
-drl
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Post #152,413
4/23/04 6:23:46 PM
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Good luck.
> I'm actively looking for a new career and I've
> stopped looking for computer work.
Not surprised. You're smart *and* experienced. Unemployable combination. :(
> 50% of my time I'm unemployed and frankly I could give
> a fuck what the new POS library/technology/OS/hardware
> /methodology/system architecture retread is.
Heh. I never did care.
> I've been at this too long and am halfway through the
> third loop. Nothing changes or improves and the average
> practitioner/manager is a clueless fuck weasel.
Yeah. Although I've been having fun with Python for several months now (and actually *enjoying* most of the conversations on a comp.* newsgroup for once), I put my continued existence in the 'industry' down to two things:
1. I don't have any peers at work, or anyone who remotely believes they are my peer. Not that I'm a genius or anything, just a "division of labor" thing.
2. I'd have a job here tomorrow if computers didn't exist. Call it a sense of purpose.
> Game Over. Bye.
Hope you find *something* worth your time and effort.
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Post #152,430
4/23/04 10:06:57 PM
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I hear you.
I'm as disgusted with this industry as you sound like you are. I only hope I can stay employed long enough to
1) Get my kids through college
2) Get my instrument, commercial and cfi
3) Get my a & p ia.
Then I'll just run some smallish country airport. Well, that's the plan anyway.
I hope things turn out for you and you find something more meaningful to pay the rent with than working with these @#@!$#@# machines.
bcnu,
Mikem
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Post #152,450
4/24/04 1:10:12 AM
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having jusr spent 3 days looking at xml boot camp
from a sysadmin point of view. This is EDI regurgitated, which was basic and cobol regirgitated. Peope invent new ways od comparing dissimular datasets and resolving sameness. The idea is grea but different shit is still different shit. The future of IT in this country is not creating sameness, that is what tools are invented to acheive, the future is in determining differences and resolving how to deal with it, So progrmming is out and recovery of services nd connectivity is in.
thanx,
bill
attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #152,680
4/26/04 6:11:46 PM
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What is old is new again
Or said differently: "same shit, different day"
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #158,354
6/4/04 4:23:30 AM
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Re: As a viable profession in the US - I'll say yes.
Yeah, me too more or less - haven't fully committed yet but I will probably get a PhD in Physics and try to find a teaching job out West, then overseas. I'm done with the country as well as the profession. Clueless fuck weasels have ruined everything, not just programming and administration.
But stick around here at least.
-drl
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Post #152,415
4/23/04 7:00:50 PM
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Re: Is programming dead?
I am an MDA skeptic.
However, my company has an MDA product and it looks like I'll get a chance to use it in the coming months.
I'll report back. ;-)
--
-- Jim Weirich jim@weirichhouse.org [link|http://onestepback.org|http://onestepback.org]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)
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Post #152,681
4/26/04 6:12:51 PM
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Programming imay be dead, but debugging isn't
Good luck debugging an MDA "program"!
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #152,446
4/24/04 12:53:49 AM
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It's changing...but it's always changing....
all the UML stuff I've seen is about equivalent to the older RE diagrams for Data Modeling. RE didn't remove the need for Data Modelers or even DBA's....UML won't remove the need for programmers.
It may simpify creation of code, but we've been doing that all along. I remember writing linked list code back in C years ago. I don't bother anymore that junk anymore. Red-Black trees? Who creates them by hand?
However, anyone who thinks that doing modeling without knowing why you use a linked list rather than a vector (array)... well, they get what they deserve, don't they?
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Post #152,455
4/24/04 2:10:00 AM
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Promotion?
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