Tell it to someone who cares

Post #132,947 by Silverlock 12/31/03 9:09:20 AM Reply	Tell it to someone who cares Time to put you back in the plonk file. I suppose we can expect to see dozens of "new" members here complaining about how we treat you again. ----------------------------------------- "After months of searching and billions of dollars, we've finally captured the man who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11 !" -Rob Cordry, The Daily Show
Post #132,969 by deSitter 12/31/03 10:49:28 AM Reply	actually I care I guess forum shock therapy doesn't work. -drl
Post #132,983 by Silverlock 12/31/03 11:53:22 AM Reply	I gave up on him a while ago I tolerate him when he's civil, ignore when inane. ----------------------------------------- "After months of searching and billions of dollars, we've finally captured the man who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11 !" -Rob Cordry, The Daily Show
Post #133,001 by orion 12/31/03 12:57:37 PM Reply	As I have said before shock therapy or tough love does not work on me and only makes me worse. Flaming me also only makes me worse. It doesn't matter if it is done in forums, in the workplace, in real life, or anywhere. It is not something I have control over either. So when it happens, I revert back to my old self. The one everyone hates and adds to the twit-file. If left alone, I slowly get better, and hence make good and meaningful posts. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,006 by deSitter 12/31/03 1:01:29 PM Reply	Re: As I have said before Don't you see this IS the thing you have to correct? You will never be better as long as this "law of Norm" is in effect. Like it or not, that is not how the world is organized. The only way to get better is practice. You are doing good in school. Great. Since you still have free time, I suggest for a humbling experience, some volunteer time at a homeless center (like St. Patrick's or the SA). They have plenty of things to do. You'll see what people who actually ARE fragile and helpless look like. -drl
Post #133,014 by orion 12/31/03 1:42:06 PM Reply	Don't you think I've tried? I've tried to break out of this vicious circle, everytime I make some progress I am right back in the hospital or right back where I was before I made progress. I've voluntered for the homeless, heck I've helped the homeless when I worked downtown by listening to their stories and giving them money to buy something to eat. You aren't the first person I've given one of my coats to. In 1992, when I didn't have health insurance, and I got majorly depressed, I went into the State Hospital. I was in a ward with a lot of the Homeless that got shuffled there as well. If not for my family, I would have been one of the homeless because I couldn't find a job back then. So don't lecture me that I don't know what the fragle and helpless look like, as I have been among them. I've toyed with the idea of volunteering at a homeless shelter, but half the time I have to watch my son, and most of the other time I have for college. Right now my son is watching cartoons, eating some chicken I heated up in the Microwave for him as I sit in the kitchen on a laptop. I find free-time inbetween studying and watching my son, or else I'd have no free-time at all. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,017 by deSitter 12/31/03 1:51:39 PM Reply	No I don't I think you've convinced yourself that you've tried so you can feel more sorry for yourself. When you are ready to admit to yourself what the problem is, it will automatically start to correct itself out of self-embarrasment. -drl
Post #133,023 by orion 12/31/03 2:46:12 PM Reply	The problem is all the bad wiring in my head, the chemical imbalance, the childhood trauma, the teenage trauma, the adult trauma, etc. I am the way I am due to genetics, my environment, my experiences, my diet, society, and the way I have learned to act. It is not a problem that is easily solved. My depression has worked into a schitzo-affective disorder and needs schitzophrenic medicine to treat it now. I do not love myself, I hate myself. This fact proves I am not a narcissist. A narcissist loves themselves too much. You call everyone but yourself a narcissist, it is just a word you use when you don't agree with anyone. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,025 by deSitter 12/31/03 2:52:26 PM Reply	Re: The problem Helen Keller had a rather terrible childhood "trauma" (what a fucked up use of that word) - she went blind and deaf. Did she sit around wanking herself? No. She was saved from a life of black silent solitude by a teacher who was raised in an 1890s version of an insane asylum, not a 1990s one. She was raised there because she too was almost totally blind and orphaned. Did she sit around wanking herself? No. Trotting out this pyschobabble pabulum is proof of your self-involvement. You are the way you are because you are spineless with fear. -drl
Post #133,030 by orion 12/31/03 3:19:15 PM Reply	Self-Involvement isn't even a word [link\|http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=self-involvement\|http://www.m-w.com/c...=self-involvement] Proof that you are making all of this up. I'll bet you are getting your jollies off of this. You just cannot stand someone else being miserable, so you claim they are not miserable, or don't suffer from what they suffer from. You have to call them lazy, or full of fear, to try and expain away what experts say on the subject. Schitzoaffective disorder exists: [link\|http://www.medhelp.org/forums/mentalhealth/archive/455.html\|http://www.medhelp.o.../archive/455.html] [link\|http://www.noah-health.org/english/illness/mentalhealth/cornell/conditions/schizoaf.html\|http://www.noah-heal...ons/schizoaf.html] [link\|http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps05.html\|http://www.mentalhea...dis/p20-ps05.html] [link\|http://www.schizoaffective.org/\|http://www.schizoaffective.org/] *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,031 by deSitter 12/31/03 3:28:42 PM Reply	Re: Self-Involvement isn't even a word You think you are the only fucked up person who has turned to the internet for narcissistic supply? OTOH I lived with a raging narcissist, and got to know her whole wacked out narcissist cold-blooded family. I know it first hand. C'mon, let's have a real flame out of you, wanker. -drl
Post #133,042 by orion 12/31/03 4:30:38 PM Reply	You asked for it your pretend to be my friend, and say you are concerned about me. Yet all I ever read from you is you putting me down. I am sick and tired of it. You talked about people being brain-fuckers, well from what I read, you are a brain-fucker. You just can't stop messing with my brain/mind. Believe me, I spent a lifetime having to deal with brain-fuckers and I can spot one first hand. The only thing you got right was my self-pity and not blaming myself for my condition. Well here and now I take responsibility for my condition. I start by standing up for myself and fighting back. Maybe that will take some of the ammo away from you? I can tell that your depression is out of control, I've seen it happen to many people I know. It is transfered into your anger towards me, into your constant obsession with me and my problems, if you ask me this is not healthy. I advise you to seek help for your mental condition before it grows more out of control. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,026 by deSitter 12/31/03 3:04:32 PM Reply	Schizoaffective disorder This is new to me, but on reading the psychobabble definition, I would prefer to call this "prolonged wanking". Schizophrenia is a real illness that you also do not recover from, and you are not that either. This is the psych world's attempt to up the ante on von Wanker's syndrome (depression) and raise it from a neurosis to a real illness. Joke: What's highly neurotic and a danger to the Alaskan wilderness? A superwanker. -drl
Post #133,028 by deSitter 12/31/03 3:09:18 PM Reply	Narcissistic neurosis Read about it here: [link\|http://samvak.tripod.com/msla.html\|http://samvak.tripod.com/msla.html] -drl
Post #133,038 by ben_tilly 12/31/03 3:58:30 PM Reply	And right there is your fuck-up, in spades Ross is right on this, Norm. Your list of causes for your problems omits the only important one, you. Stop fucking wallowing in your own self-pity and wake up to reality someday. Reality is that we ALL have problems, and the only one who can do anything about your personal problems is yourself. If you wish to declare yourself a victim forever, nothing can stop you. And nothing can stop the people who done you wrong from claiming that they are victims of their own circumstances ad nauseum. But the fact is that if you really cared to take responsibility for yourself, you could. You could choose to deal with your own crap and live a better life. And pretty much everyone here knows it, which is why you don't get a lot of sympathy. Oh yeah, I know what you are thinking about this. He doesn't really know what I've been through, what does he know of trouble? No, I'm not going into specifics. But I've seen enough of trouble, both directly and indirectly, to recognize self-pitying pap when I see it. And to recognize that the first step towards actually doing something about it is killing the whining self-pity. IIRC you have kids. In which case you don't just have to do it for yourself. Do it for them. Remember this, if they grow up seeing you spend your life whining about being a victim, you have just handed them a load of your crap to grow up with and given them no role-model for how to deal with their own problems. And if they don't figure out how to do what you are avoiding doing, then when they grow up their litany of woes will include having you as their father. And they'll be right. Just as you're right. And they'll miss the point just as you are doing. They can't help having had you as a dad. The only one who can control how much of a burden vs asset having you as a dad was is you. The ones who have to deal with the consequences are them. But you can make it easier. Here is how you can make it easier. By taking responsibility for your own life. Now. That way you pass along less shit. And give them a model for how to deal with their own. Despite every excuse that you can invent. The only excuse that you need is, I'm improving, and ____ is my current focus to make sure that I continue to improve. Every time you feel inclined to give more excuses, review what improvements you have made. Make the first improvement be, I've been dealt whatever hand I've been dealt, but it is up to me to do something about it. Regards, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #133,041 by orion 12/31/03 4:21:42 PM Reply	Maybe you are right it will be hard to break a habit of a lifetime, to get rid of self-pity. In a way I am working on it, by going to college and trying to get a degree so I can get myself out of the disabilty I am on. I am working on it, but it is the hardest thing in the world for me. You are right, I cannot control external factors, but I can try and control internal ones. If I can only change the way I react to external factors, I can get more control over my illness. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,046 by ben_tilly 12/31/03 4:41:38 PM Reply	There is no if about it If I must be a slave to habit, let me be a slave to good habits. -- Og Mandio We can't change the fact that we are creatures of habits. But we can change the habits that we are creatures of. However you won't get there by talking like a dishrag. You also won't get there by acknowledging how hard it is. You get there by focusing on what you are doing to change. Ironically when you do it right, it doesn't take much "effort", just persistance. After all a habit isn't a 500 pound boulder, it just is an insubstantial reflex that feels that way. Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #133,044 by deSitter 12/31/03 4:33:57 PM Reply	You should read Vaknin's entire work I think he is the most profound psychological thinker alive. He is not a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, "do it for the kids" is a far too feeble reason for a narcissist to change. That is why you'll usually find an entire family of narcissists when you find an individual. The cold-blooded symbiotic ruthlessness of these families has to be experienced to be understood. An outsider might as well be a piece of furniture. Nothing of his is valued, not even the outsider's family heirlooms and memorobilia. The human race ends at the family branch. According to Vaknin, only insistent, brutal confrontation can force a narcissist into change. The scary thing is - our entire society is set up to reward not just superficial narcissism (clothes, youth culture, etc.) but the pernicious psychological syndrome of narcissism itself. You will see that Vaknin makes deep observation that extreme conformity and conservatism in the reactionary sense is one of the characteristic hallmarks of narcissism. Our country itself can be said to be suffering from advanced narcissism. This provides a perfect explanation of how these flag waving jingoists can at the same time be virulently anti-American in the true sense - the America loved by the narcissist is the image of America that conceals the fact of bursting prisons, extreme classism based on wealth, and brutal, cold-blooded lack of concern for other nations in the real sense. -drl
Post #133,045 by ben_tilly 12/31/03 4:35:17 PM Reply	Oh, I've experienced it. Trust me on this. :-( "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #133,163 by Nightowl 1/1/04 5:26:21 PM Reply	This is the MOST important thing to remember ...It is not a problem that is easily solved. My depression has worked into a schitzo-affective disorder and needs schitzophrenic medicine to treat it now... It didn't come into being overnight, and it isn't solved overnight. My situation improved, and I changed who I was and how I was, but it took YEARS and YEARS.... almost 23, to be exact. So be patient with yourself, and ignore all these people who think you can snap your fingers and suddenly be ok. It just does NOT work like that. It's a slow, steady and ongoing process that takes lots and lots of time. Nightowl >8# This space left blank till Owl can change her quote.
Post #133,167 by orion 1/1/04 6:06:52 PM Reply	I know that which is why I ignored their advice. They don't know enough about me to properly diagnose my condition or plan a solution. Nor do they know the nature of my illness or how to treat it. People who think that a depressed person can just snap out of it, deserve to either go to hell or end up with a depression of their own that they cannot snap out of. A lot of the way I think and feel comes from the illness. The illness creates negative thoughts, and it is like having bad recordings being played in my head over and over again and I don't have access to an off switch. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,057 by Silverlock 12/31/03 7:08:46 PM Reply	The only opinion about Norm that matters is Norm's. "Tell it to someone who cares" should include Norm. As none of our words seem to help, I'd say he should spend some serious, quality, discussion time with his own reflection. ----------------------------------------- "After months of searching and billions of dollars, we've finally captured the man who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11 !" -Rob Cordry, The Daily Show
Post #133,062 by orion 12/31/03 7:45:30 PM Reply	Go soak your head you never liked me anyway, so why should any of this matter to you what I do? Actually some of the words posted here have helped, you need to reread some of my posts. Esp the ones where I agreed with AG. Unless you too have a reading comprehension problem? *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,064 by Silverlock 12/31/03 7:59:39 PM Reply	Was I talking to you? ----------------------------------------- "After months of searching and billions of dollars, we've finally captured the man who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11 !" -Rob Cordry, The Daily Show
Post #133,076 by orion 12/31/03 8:30:11 PM Reply	You posted on the thread you talked about me. Sure seemed like you had something to say to me, advice-wise. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #133,162 by Nightowl 1/1/04 5:23:49 PM Reply	Re: Tell it to someone who cares I care also. I will always care, even when I'm holding you at arms length, Norman, because we have been friends a long time. But we have been through a lot together, so I hang in there and do my best to be the best friend I can, and that includes always caring. Nightowl >8# This space left blank till Owl can change her quote.
Post #133,170 by orion 1/1/04 6:10:36 PM Reply	Thank you for caring (new thread) Created as new thread #133169 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=133169\|Thank you for caring] *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*

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