Post #128,624
12/3/03 12:11:49 PM
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Read your history. And my post.
I said "we".
And what is nowadays called "The United States Of America" was a British colony. (STFU about England. We've been United for longer - much longer - than YOU). What on earth did you think the War Of Independence was ABOUT?
You might think that they're working 16 hours a day 6 days a week at 50 cents an hour, if that helps you. Thing is, they're not. True, they're not earning what would be considered a living wage in the UK or USA, but then they don't live in either of those countries. They're still clearly earning whatever their skills are worth in their country.
To be perfectly honest, the USA deserves it in return for Bhopal, if nothing else. We deserve it for the shit that BP pulled in SE Asia and Nigeria. (Whoops, did we blow up your entire working family? Gee, sorry.)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #128,657
12/3/03 2:35:27 PM
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Re: Read your history. And my post.
When YOUR job is forfeit, you'll sing a new tune, Tommy.
-drl
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Post #129,058
12/4/03 11:44:07 PM
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Different versions of history apparently
The version I read was that we actually won our war of Independance. We also actually saved your country's rear end in WWI and WWII. We may not have been United as long as your country has, but we have contributed a lot of inventions and ideas to the world. Not to mention that we made it to the moon and back. :)
I got that rate from family members living in Thailand and working in factories there. They do get paid 50 cents an hour, and do work 6 day weeks at 16 hours a day. They also live in a family house, which is very small, and can have as many as a dozen or more people living there. I went over for a visit in October 2000 and learned these things. So what is your source of information? That they make $5USD/hr and work 8 hour days 5 days a week and live in an air conditioned timeshare? :) They wish, AC is something they cannot afford. Heck their kitchen was outside and they use propane tanks for the stove. If we didn't send them money they wouldn't even have a washing machine, which one of my sister-in-laws use to wash clothes for other people to make extra money. Don't know why they don't have time to wash their own clothes, working 16 hours a day, slackers! :)
Thing is it is not the country or government that is getting hurt here, it is the hard working middle-class citizens who are getting the shaft. People that had nothing to do with Bhopal. There is no justice in that.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #129,090
12/5/03 11:33:12 AM
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Just a quick correction here...
The version I read was that we actually won our war of Independance. Just a quick correction - it wasn't so much that we "won" the war of independance as it was that the British got bored of kicking our asses and went home. A minor point, but significant nonetheless. I have a red sign on my door. It says "If this sign is blue, you're going too fast."
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Post #129,094
12/5/03 12:03:22 PM
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Which is how Vietnam won against the USA
And is how the people fighting us in Iraq plan to win as well.
What goes around, comes around. Except this time we are the ones paying the big bills.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #129,096
12/5/03 12:08:43 PM
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Which, it seemed, was perhaps Peter's original point
Hey, the Brits have a long institutional history of conquest, occupation, and colonisation. Might know something about how it works...
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #129,235
12/6/03 2:55:31 AM
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Ding! Thankyou :)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #129,097
12/5/03 12:08:50 PM
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The book!
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Post #129,158
12/5/03 2:31:20 PM
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:-)
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #129,101
12/5/03 12:17:24 PM
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Re: Just a quick correction here...
Not quite true - the Americans had significant victories in set battles - not at first, but after getting organized and better funded. Remember the colonies thought themselves more or less autonomous and it was not easy to get them to cooperate.
England had issues with France that were "more pressing" - and in any case, they lost very little in not having the colonies, which had become more or less autonomous by 1760 in any case, to directly supervise. So it is true, they didn't give it a maximum effort - but it is not correct to say they "got tired of kicking our asses and left". Washington turned out to be a superb strategist and fairly defeated the British by skilful maneuvering and tactics when force alone was not enough. These men were not stupid, and they would not have started a war they were not convinced could be won.
A similar argument is often made about the Turks at Galipoli - that they won only because the British were forced to cope with impossible terrain, that the British and Anzacs eventually just said "neener" and split - no, the Turks made a brilliant defense with a force outnumbered 10 to 1 by exploiting interior lines and advantageous terrain.
-drl
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Post #129,120
12/5/03 1:01:24 PM
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Maybe at first
but once the Minutemen got organized and started using guerrilla warfare instead of standing up in the battlefields and firing in a straight line until everyone was dead, they started to actualy win battles. The British outnumbered them and used German mercinaries, but the US had France as an ally to help out. After they decided that it was a war that waan't worth winning, the British pulled out and gave up.
So in the version of history that I read, we won the war of independance. We are no longer colonies to England. Also saying that we are the same as England because our roots came from there because of the colonies is a falsehood. The US is a melting pot of people from all over the world. We are all not having roots from Merry Olde England anymore. There is quite an ethic mix of people in the US, so you cannot lump us in with England anymore. To do so would be wrong and politically incorrect.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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