Bicameral Mind. Julian Jaynes, Author. A quite different tack, more of the evolutionary sort - ergo not greatly interesting to me, however clever..


Interesting er synchronicity:

Some weeks ago I was watching a video of Bohm, Krishnamurti and a 'clergyman'... (obviously made before '92 !)

I was with a cohort, so we share some experience of alternate views to the popular -isms. Unfruitful to try to describe our combined experiences and present ~'POV'.

But we both felt that Krishnamurti 'blew' this attempt to illustrate ___? (We never could tell! *what* he was getting at - and we know the shorthand). The clergyman had no clue whatsoever. Bohm was by far the clearer speaker, but apparently he too was unable to follow much / add-on to whatever K. was trying to get at. So he made tangential and interesting remarks. Irritating - is how I'd describe K's demeanor (!)

Apparently there are several hours of these 'conversations' - I'll have to review in light of the comments in these links below.

To oversimplify that which I would not even attempt to set out in detail: our conclusion re K's interesting life in the West - was that he never achieved that 'realization' which is axiomatic to becoming a 'sage'. Not even close, alas.

Bohm in this video - (I didn't know of his history) was "odd in appearance" in the sense: it was as if his face were frozen.. into the nearest to an "unemotional" state as I can recall noticing in anyone. I remarked upon this immediately to D. She concurred, but attributed that to ~"living in the intellect".

Anyway - B. appears a great "model builder", perhaps a much clearer one than Ouspensky / Gurdjieff. Even has a 'placemarker' for that area ____ (about which we cannot speak, for we cannot grasp the concept). Of course, intellect is never enough - nor can I infer very much of Bohm's development in emotional awareness - from this little. Models are never the territory.

I suppose I shall have to check out the book in some next, and re-view the tape for whatever B. could get out, despite the very poor management of this "conversation" via Krishnamurti's 'control freak' management. (It is hard to imagine the two collaborating in the writing of a book!)

Some outlines of Bohm's theses:

[link|http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/prat-boh.htm|Bohm 1]

[link|http://www.bizcharts.com/stoa_del_sol/plenum/plenum_3.html|Bohm 2]

{sigh} Dunno.. whether I'm up for a math model again.. he'd damn well better prove to also possess a well developed emotional center or: it will just be 'cute'... but no cigar. (Personally I need no further 'models' as, at certain stage their utility diminishes - one must go in a different way and 'orthogonal' doesn't cover it either!)

Cheers,

Ashton

A pithy summary. Rats. Gotta read another book.

I concur that there's always room for better concision, clearer steps in acquiring the intellectual discernment necessary to umm (break codes?) What is the Master Game\ufffd (for want of a decent symbol) - must incorporate much more self-knowledge than just that road.

I noted in B's comments in the tapes, that he *is* someone who has closely observed 'what goes on inside' / that which we always do, etc. Thus I'd be stupid not to read this book to discover how well he has been able to use language in the most inaccessible areas of all. With such a virtuoso's grasp of the most arcane of physical models, it seems he has the means to actually provoke insight (?!)

Still, no book is capable of transmitting All and Everything; other work is required. I remain ever hopeful of.. Surprise!


Ashton
blessed are those who expect nothing, for -

er de rigeur defense of the indefensible ?? that actual exchange of insights might just.. prove possible at zIWE ! :-\ufffd

The species *has* learned one or two things since er 0 BCE.

I now have to go back to those tapes of Bohm et al, and try to see Bohm with a bit more comprehension. (I already appreciate Krishnamurti for what he attempted - to bring Westerners somewhat up-to-speed on some pretty old stuff; but others have done that better IMhO)

Methinks we have to soon start developing a well.. "language of Heart?" so as to complement our over-developed intellects - somehow freed of sectarian cant, and prior conditioning. This especially in the West - and somehow averting the sentimentalism seen in the Bowdlerization of both Western and Eastern (gawd that once good word is so abused!) paradigms.

{sigh}

(Actually, IMnsHO - my feeling especially of late.. is, unless we succeed in bringing our best minds & hearts to a more global understanding of (our er 'position here'?), I believe our techno- capabilities shall render all growth in common, widespread! awareness: moot.)



Cheers,

Ashton

anti- sic transit Gloria mundi