Re: Linux annoyances

Post #124,599 by pwhysall 11/7/03 11:01:23 AM Reply	Re: Linux annoyances Again about fonts - I've been using freetype2 and Xft since X 4.0 with patches. SuSE does not install a font server. Fonts are easy with applications that use them sanely - that is, Qt apps. On my spiff laptop with perfect fonts, Mozilla still looks like crap because it's compiled against an outdated freetype - this is a GTK issue. Ross, you keep saying this, and it's bollocks every time. Please stop. QT and GTK handle fonts in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. If SuSE can't ship a correctly compiled Mozilla, that's a SuSE QA issue. It's nothing to do with (a) Mozilla or (b) GTK. You can compile the kernel to do a shutdown on a press of the power button - any modern machine will have an acpi BIOS capable of this. Agreed. I've found the ACPI support in 2.6 to be somewhat more reliable than the equivalent in 2.4. Laptops that would fail to come out of suspend under a 2.4 kernel do so correctly under 2.6. Ejecting CDs - I've never attempted it but autofs should be able to automount and unmount CDs. The SuSE desktop comes with active icons (as in OS/2) that allow right-click/eject. I just type "eject" at a console prompt. But, I wonder if it's possible to sense a press of the CD eject button... Take a look at Knoppix for the all-singing, all-dancing removable-media-fest, including USB keys and floppies. What requirements do "enterprises" have that can't be handled by KOffice and OpenOffice.org? You've fallen under the spell of MSOffice. Simple. Shared calendaring and contacts. Workflow applications. I can't provide an LDAP and NIS tutorial here but you can find one here; [link\|http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LDAP-HOWTO/\|http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LDAP-HOWTO/] [link\|http://www.unav.es/cti/ldap-smb-howto.html\|http://www.unav.es/c...ap-smb-howto.html] [link\|http://quark.humbug.org.au/publications/ldap_tut.html\|http://quark.humbug....ons/ldap_tut.html] As LDAP develops it will gradually replace the functions in the older NIS user synchronization. With communication over ssh it's as secure as your local machines are secure. It seems easier to use and comprehend than AD by a long stretch, and it isn't burdened by NDIS domains. LDAP is a bastard to implement; the tools you get with Linux for managing it are shit. If you don't need all that and just want single logons in a Linux network, or among a group of servers, use NIS. I'd agree, but with the caveat that NIS is not trivial to implement or administer. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #124,601 by deSitter 11/7/03 11:21:56 AM Reply	Re: Linux annoyances Many, many GTK apps, including some I use all the time (mozilla, scilab, xephem, xmms, etc.) are compiled against a copy of GTK that uses the obsolete font renderer freetype1. I have Mozilla 1.2 up right now and it looks shitty. I have gtk2 and freetype2 but the application is not using them. It is not a trivial undertaking to move an app from gtk1/freetype1 to the modern versions. -drl
Post #124,603 by Yendor 11/7/03 11:43:25 AM Reply	Mozilla 1.2? Jesus, Ross. That's only 3 point-releases behind. I'm currently running Mozilla Debian Package 1.5-2. Get up to speed. -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #124,608 by deSitter 11/7/03 11:54:24 AM Reply	Re: Mozilla 1.2? I've been planning on it, but it's a huge download over a dialup line. How big is the source code? -drl
Post #124,620 by Yendor 11/7/03 12:27:57 PM Reply	Re: Mozilla 1.2? [link\|http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.5/src/\|See for yourself]. -YendorMike [link\|http://www.hope-ride.org/\|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Post #124,624 by orion 11/7/03 12:30:47 PM Reply	Talk to me I have a DSL and a CDR drive. I could possibly burn you a copy of the latest Mozilla packages and whatever else your dial-up cannot handle. Shoot an email at ngking at sbcglobal.net and we can arrange a time to meet and drop the CDR off or I can mail it to you. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #124,626 by deSitter 11/7/03 12:40:54 PM Reply	Re: Talk to me I'll come pick it up and we can hang for a few. When's a good time to meet you? There are boatloads of things I need and can't download! It'll be nice getting out. Today would be great. Send directions to antimatter33 (splat) yahoo (spot) com -drl
Post #124,636 by orion 11/7/03 1:42:39 PM Reply	I'll send you some email *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #124,640 by admin 11/7/03 2:10:40 PM Reply	Never been an issue. apt-get handled all that for me. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #124,645 by deSitter 11/7/03 2:16:51 PM Reply	Re: Never been an issue. How does apt know which version of GTK an app got compiled under? -drl
Post #124,646 by admin 11/7/03 2:37:17 PM Reply	I don't care how. It does. That's all that matters. The dependency checking and version management in Debian are unsurpassed. It's much better than SuSE (yes, I've used both extensively). It Just Works. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #124,647 by deSitter 11/7/03 2:50:57 PM Reply	I don't doubt that apt is good rpm works too, but I'm sure apt is "better". I'd still like to know how it knows what version etc. etc. Does it look in the binary? -drl
Post #124,648 by admin 11/7/03 2:52:49 PM Reply	Look it up. I don't care how it works. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #124,710 by pwhysall 11/8/03 3:17:13 AM Reply	apt and rpm are not equivalent rpm's equivalent in Debian would be dpkg. [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/dwww?type=man&location=/usr/share/man/man8/dpkg.8.gz\|http://guildenstern....an/man8/dpkg.8.gz] (Did I mention also that Debian's documentation tools kick the living bahoomies out of everyone else's?) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #124,689 by kmself 11/7/03 10:47:19 PM 11/8/03 12:22:09 AM Reply	How does it know? Debian packaging infrastructure. An Irishman was asked to describe the greatest invention in civilization. After thinking for a few moments, he said "The Dewar flask" (Thermos bottle to Yanks). "Really," said the interviewer, "and why is that?". "Well", says the Irishman, "she keeps the hot things hot, ana she keeps the cold things chilled". "Yes, yes," says the interviewer, "we all know that". "Aye," says the Irishman, "but how does she know?". \r\n\r\n In the case of apt, one word: [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/\|Policy]. Specifically: [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s3.5\|3.5 Dependencies] \r\n\r\n \r\n Every package must specify the dependency information about other packages that are required for the first to work correctly. \r\n\r\n For example, a dependency entry must be provided for any shared libraries required by a dynamically-linked executable binary in a package. \r\n\r\n Packages are not required to declare any dependencies they have on other packages which are marked Essential (see below), and should not do so unless they depend on a particular version of that package. \r\n\r\n Sometimes, a package requires another package to be installed and configured before it can be installed. In this case, you must specify a Pre-Depends entry for the package. \r\n\r\n You should not specify a Pre-Depends entry for a package before this has been discussed on the debian-devel mailing list and a consensus about doing that has been reached. \r\n\r\n The format of the package interrelationship control fields is described in [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html\|Declaring relationships between packages, Chapter 7]. \r\n \r\n\r\n Dependencies are specified as packages, not as files. \r\n\r\n Packages which incorrectly specify their dependencies -- to the point of naming the wrong version of a package, or overspecifying the version (restricting to a narrower range than is actually allowable), is a serious bug. A package with a serious outstanding bug filed against it won't be included in the stable release (it can however be in the unstable release). \r\n\r\n Package maintenance is described in the [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/\|Debian New Maintainers' Guide]. The [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html\|structure of the 'control' file] is covered here. Note that line 10 of the control file, as detailed, includes an automated first-pass population of the "Depends" field with an automated utility. As with many other aspects of Debian, there are automated tools to assist in build and QC practices (`shlibs:Depends`). This is typical of the general practice in Debian. There is a contract, policy guides, technical direction and tools, selection processes, social reinforcement, and open bugtracking, all of which contribute to the quality of the project as a whole. \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n [link\|http://www.debian.org/social_contract\|Debian Social Contract] specifies overall goals and committments of the project. \r\n\r\n [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/\|Debian Policy] states the rules under which package maintainers must operate. \r\n\r\n The [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/\|Debian Developer's Reference] and [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html\|Debian New Maintainer's Guide] provide detailed guidance and reference tools for maintainers. \r\n\r\n Several tools and packages ([link\|http://packages.debian.org/stable/utils/dpkg-dev.html\|dpkg-dev],\r\n[link\|http://packages.debian.org/stable/devel/dh-make-perl.html\|dh-make],\r\n[link\|http://packages.debian.org/stable/devel/debhelper.html\|debhelper],\r\n[link\|http://packages.debian.org/stable/devel/devscripts.html\|devscripts], and others listed in [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-start.en.html\|DNMG -- Getting started The Right Way] automate parts of the build and packaging process. \r\n\r\n Maintainers are selected through [link\|http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-new-maintainer.en.html\|an application and sponsorship process]. It's slow and thorough, but has been the cause of some friction. \r\n\r\n Maintainers are required to participate in the [link\|http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/\|debian-devel] mailing list. This is a high-traffic, high-signal list in which pretty much everything of significance to Debian is discussed. \r\n\r\n The [link\|http://bugs.debian.org/\|Debian Bugtracking System] (BTS) tracks feedback and bugs (from wishlist to severe) on packages. It's open to anyone for submissions (which means that spam to the BTS itself is a significant problem) and review. Debian's bugs are open to all to see -- the project doesn't hide its problems. \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n No wonder [link\|http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/1999/14/\|Neal Stephenson digs Debian]. The man is all about technology, social groups, tribe, and evolution. \r\n\r\n The result is that Debian manages to keep a loose-knit organization of over 1,000 package maintainers, scattered around the globe, maintaining over 13,500 packages, in a distribution which manages a stable release every 1.5 - 2 years, with a very high level of quality. \r\n\r\n Debian stable [link\|http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2003/debian-project-200304/msg00104.html\|release dates]: \r\n\r\n \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 0.93R6 Oct 26, 1995 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 1.1 ``buzz'' Jun 17, 1996 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 1.2 ``rex'' Dec 12, 1996 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 1.3 ``bo'' Jun 5, 1997 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 ``hamm'' Jul 24, 1998 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 ``slink'' Mar 9, 1999 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 ``potato'' Aug 15, 2000 \r\n Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 ``woody'' Jul 19, 2002 \r\n \r\n\r\n That's the sort of thing [link\|http://opensource.mit.edu/papers/omahony.pdf\|you might even expect a Stanford Management Science and Engineering PhD candidate to write a thesis about]. \r\n\r\n So that's how Debian knows. \r\n\r\n Edits: fixed links. --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n Edited by kmself Nov. 7, 2003, 10:56:18 PM EST Edited by kmself Nov. 8, 2003, 12:22:09 AM EST Expand All History
Post #124,692 by deSitter 11/7/03 11:28:03 PM Reply	Thanks, very informative -drl
Post #124,708 by cforde 11/8/03 2:22:38 AM Reply	thanks for the link to Siobhan's paper I'm doing a presentation on OSS and its use/effect in education for my education and technology class. Her paper has some great information. Say 'hi' for me next time you see her. :-) Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #124,702 by pwhysall 11/8/03 1:31:08 AM Reply	That's a SuSE issue. They're shipping ancient versions of software. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #124,704 by pwhysall 11/8/03 1:34:41 AM Reply	Also... ...apt-get install mozilla-xft oops, you're running SuSE. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]

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