Post #119,409
9/29/03 1:57:35 PM
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With folks losing their jobs, I hate to post this.
But I must. Last night I found out for the first time how very tight our money situation is. I've had to put my airplane up for sale. I know that's a very small thing for anyone looking for work. It's just that I have so few dreams left, I hate to see a really big one go away.
Damn it, this didn't help. I was hoping I'd feel better "talking" about it...
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #119,410
9/29/03 2:01:56 PM
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Don't feel bad...
I had to stop buying computers... cars... tools... books... among other things.
It's not just you.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Check is in the mail...
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Post #119,416
9/29/03 2:46:47 PM
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Re: Don't feel bad...
Dammit Jar, why'd ya have to mention BOOKS!
-drl
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Post #119,417
9/29/03 2:47:40 PM
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I just use them for a while now...
and return them to the library.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
This book is due back in three weeks.
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Post #119,500
9/30/03 12:19:04 AM
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Giving up Half Price Books, too?
One thing I tend to do is to shop Half Price Books instead of Barnes and Noble.
Half Price is a pretty common bookstore down here in Texas (started in Austin), and they basically buy books that people are willing to sell, then price them according to their age. No book is ever more than 1/2 it's original price.
Every once in a while, you'll catch a gem, like a Comer book for about 1/2 their original $80.
Right now, you find lots of Java Books, Linux, and Windows. I almost picked up a couple of COBOL books a few days ago on the clearance rack for $1 and $3 apiece. The $3 was my college COBOL textbook. I hear that mainframe jobs are making a little bit of a comeback, since so many mainframers have retired and very few colleges still teach mainframe.
I used to be a mainframer a decade ago, and thought maybe I could weasel my way into a conversion project, because I used to do mainframe, and I'm middleware (mainframe bridge), Unix, and Windows literate. And I'm also a DBA.
But back to topic. Greg, I know you have to count pennies right now, but perhaps there's a Half Price books near you? (Or something similar?)
But, also to be honest, I have bought a whole lot LESS books since about 1999, because most of the info is available on the Internet. It seems I'm looking more and more for "classics", (like Comer books), and less Linux, Windows, and Unix product manuals. Heck many vendors have their entire doc collection online. So why buy?
Glen Austin
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Post #119,701
10/1/03 10:50:39 AM
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Local libraries are great.
The King County Library system Kicks Much Ass. Of course, you have to live in the King County area, but you can get just about anything you want, either bookwise or moviewise via the system.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #119,411
9/29/03 2:04:16 PM
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Condolences
I have been tracking finances closely for the past year. And have cut back on most discretionary spending AND have started to sell off my "toys". With wife handicapped and unable to work, times are getting tough.
I hope that times will change for the better for you, and all the Iwethey-.
I sucks having to give up one's little luxuries.
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever."
1 Peter 1:24-25
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Post #119,476
9/29/03 9:11:20 PM
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Happening here in Aust too
Have drawn up a list of HK toys that can now be sold off (Sony miniDV cam, Sony PCG-UM1 thumbook etc:).
Have started exploring eBay opportinities in the hope I can get wife running a small business supplying wireless network parts while I supply the expert advice
What I find most worrying of all, is I am on a comparatively good salary. Just finding it increasingly challenging to meet the rising outgoings. Turned down chance of a leased car worth &45k to keep a 10yo Ford Fairmont I paid $4k for
In fact without side busisness - would be damned tough.
Doug M
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Post #119,494
9/29/03 11:10:09 PM
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part of the plan....
....where do you think all that money went that we used to have?
The plan that originated more than ten years ago in Texas is
sure being implemented mighty well. It's only when people get
mad-as-hell that things will improve.
My $.02,
Slugbug
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Post #119,501
9/30/03 12:40:43 AM
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Define Mad as Hell?
I'm a pretty much lifelong Republican, and I'm thinking of voting something else in the next election.
The problem I have is that 90% of the Democrats are just as sold out to the same, or similar business interests.
And I think the country's problems go way deeper than Democrat or Republican. It goes to the root problems of society. Mainly, that people don't care too much for one another any more and greed.
My grandparents and my wife's grandparents did incredible things in the Great Depression to help others. My maternal grandad didn't charge rent during winter months for renters who were employees of his construction business. My paternal grandparents took in a single mom with 3 kids (with 4 kids of their own already) for 3-4 years. My wife's grandparents fed the hobos riding on the train. Is there any kind of love and compassion like that today? I'd like to hear those stories, AND make those people heros to my children.
Especially rich people. One article recently posted in another forum on iWeThey said that the top 1% of the rich basically doubled their real net worth in the last decade, and the rest of us, well we were taken (screwed, f*****, whatever).
So, I would say I'm not terribly happy with the fact that we're trying a whole lot harder to make ends meet in 2003, when our house payment is only $40 a month more than it was in 1989. Basically, I think that even though our income has increased since 1989/1990, inflation for other stuff ( healthcare, gasoline, food, etc. ) has basically made stuff that was 50 cents in 1989 cost $1 today, and most of us didn't get the luxury of having our salary doubled in the same period.
So, now people are asking me to settle for expectations that I'll make LESS in the next decade, not more, but you can bet your booty that gas will be at least $3.00 a gallon (in Texas), a pound of beef will be $4.00, and my electric bill will probably average $400 a month (from $280 a month today). So, how in the heck am I going to sustain a standard of living?
I won't, and it will tick me off. And I'll do what it takes to feed my family, but the greediest in society are about to get one HELL of a pushback!
One big thing I would like to see is people spending their money with small businesses, instead of the mega-corps where the wealth is concentrated.
I was in a store recently, and discovered that some of the best appliances built in America today, are built by smaller companies that care about quality, names like Bosch and Viking. Yes, they cost twice what a GE might cost, but they last 4 times as long.
And when I visited the "appliance clearance center", the room was littered with GE appliances. Even the "high end" Artica stuff was on clearance.
So, eschew the "Big Guys" who advertise a lot, have companies run by MBAs, and care more about the bucks than the customers. That's starting to become my practice, and actually, I'm going to do it more and more.
I want to know the people who sell me stuff, and I expect them to take care of me when things break and don't go as planned. I want to live in a smaller community, and get feedback on who is "good business" and who is "bad".
Glen Austin
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Post #119,503
9/30/03 12:51:42 AM
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Re: Define Mad as Hell?
And I think the country's problems go way deeper than Democrat or Republican. It goes to the root problems of society. Mainly, that people don't care too much for one another any more and greed. Man.... you cut right to my deepest fear.... people not caring about one another. Employers not caring about their employees... etc. etc. My grandparents and my wife's grandparents did incredible things in the Great Depression to help others. My maternal grandad didn't charge rent during winter months for renters who were employees of his construction business. My paternal grandparents took in a single mom with 3 kids (with 4 kids of their own already) for 3-4 years. My wife's grandparents fed the hobos riding on the train. Is there any kind of love and compassion like that today? I'd like to hear those stories, AND make those people heros to my children. I agree, there is far too little compassion, caring and helping in the world. I do my best, it isn't much, but I do my best, because I was raised by my father and mother to BE that sort of person, kind, caring and helping. I gave a gift of money to a family in need after my closing church left it to me (a portion for each member) to distribute where I saw fit. I've taken people into my home before, many times. Not since I moved here and got married, but before that, I did. I've driven many a person without a license or in need of a ride, even as much as back and forth to work. I TRY to be that example, that my parents taught me, of loving kindness, and compassion and caring... Then I wind up deceived, lied to, hurt and disillusioned. :( Sigh. But I keep on keeping on, because it's who I am, and I believe in it. As long as I'm able to help someone, I can, and it's within my means to do, I try. I know I'm not quite the story you wanted to hear about, but at least it proves there are those out there (at least one, in me), who continue to try and show that sort of love and compassion. :) Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
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Post #119,504
9/30/03 12:58:29 AM
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Read my posts over the last 5 yrs :)
But NOOOO, I was CRAZY..
(well, I guess I am sort of crazy...)
-drl
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Post #119,517
9/30/03 6:44:52 AM
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Re: Define Mad as Hell?
I was talking with friends over the weekend. The line that was given was "I've been pretty apolitical until recently". The response: "I've been hearing that a lot". Followed by some intense conversation, much of it reading like a political thriller. Until I read the same stuff in [link|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11811|reasonable regarded news sites] the next day. Prety much verbatim. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #119,520
9/30/03 7:50:12 AM
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why wait to hear stories from other people?
Dont wait for the next guy, the next time you see someone in need step up. It doesnt matter if no one see's, you, it doesnt matter if no one else cares. You do your part and the rest can go hang,,, or not.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #119,526
9/30/03 8:29:14 AM
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I am mad as hell
Once you reach a certain level (whether it's called VP or something else) you get paid obscene amounts of money and take no real responsibility. I am being laid off because upper management has no real business plan and has managed the company into the ground. Yet, the VP in charge of my division didn't get fired but bumped sideways. He now has a brand new division to run which he can now manage into the ground as well. How many times when big companies lay off x% of the workforce do you hear of executives getting canned? They just get shifted around like the deck chairs on the Titanic. And, in the event that they do leave, they get a golden parachute so they have no financial worries for the rest of their life. There is no way that the CEO of any company is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They are not the ones producing the products, innovating, etc. The people who do that are you and me, yet we are treated like dirt.
I don't have an answer, but I know that the current situation cannot continue much longer.
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Post #119,502
9/30/03 12:48:29 AM
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Define Mad as Hell?
I'm a pretty much lifelong Republican, and I'm thinking of voting something else in the next election.
The problem I have is that 90% of the Democrats are just as sold out to the same, or similar business interests.
And I think the country's problems go way deeper than Democrat or Republican. It goes to the root problems of society. Mainly, that people don't care too much for one another any more and greed.
My grandparents and my wife's grandparents did incredible things in the Great Depression to help others. My maternal grandad didn't charge rent during winter months for renters who were employees of his construction business. My paternal grandparents took in a single mom with 3 kids (with 4 kids of their own already) for 3-4 years. My wife's grandparents fed the hobos riding on the train. Is there any kind of love and compassion like that today? I'd like to hear those stories, AND make those people heros to my children.
Especially rich people. One article recently posted in another forum on iWeThey said that the top 1% of the rich basically doubled their real net worth in the last decade, and the rest of us, well we were taken (screwed, f*****, whatever).
So, I would say I'm not terribly happy with the fact that we're trying a whole lot harder to make ends meet in 2003, when our house payment is only $40 a month more than it was in 1989. Basically, I think that even though our income has increased since 1989/1990, inflation for other stuff ( healthcare, gasoline, food, etc. ) has basically made stuff that was 50 cents in 1989 cost $1 today, and most of us didn't get the luxury of having our salary doubled in the same period.
So, now people are asking me to settle for expectations that I'll make LESS in the next decade, not more, but you can bet your booty that gas will be at least $3.00 a gallon (in Texas), a pound of beef will be $4.00, and my electric bill will probably average $400 a month (from $280 a month today). So, how in the heck am I going to sustain a standard of living?
I won't, and it will tick me off. And I'll do what it takes to feed my family, but the greediest in society are about to get one HELL of a pushback!
One big thing I would like to see is people spending their money with small businesses, instead of the mega-corps where the wealth is concentrated.
I was in a store recently, and discovered that some of the best appliances built in America today, are built by smaller companies that care about quality, names like Bosch and Viking. Yes, they cost twice what a GE might cost, but they last 4 times as long.
And when I visited the "appliance clearance center", the room was littered with GE appliances. Even the "high end" Artica stuff was on clearance.
So, eschew the "Big Guys" who advertise a lot, have companies run by MBAs, and care more about the bucks than the customers. That's starting to become my practice, and actually, I'm going to do it more and more.
I want to know the people who sell me stuff, and I expect them to take care of me when things break and don't go as planned. I want to live in a smaller community, and get feedback on who is "good business" and who is "bad".
Glen Austin
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Post #119,542
9/30/03 10:38:49 AM
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You didn't get around to Wealth and Democracy yet?
I understand, it is kind of long.
He doesn't quite come out and say it, but the historical parallels strongly suggest that that the USA could wind up with an armed rebellion by 2015 or so. Certainly the current plutocracy won't remain in power forever. It will just seem like it for the next few years.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #119,543
9/30/03 10:55:26 AM
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I have more faith in American resilience
I don't see armed rebellion, but I do see gigantic economic collapse - I'm already making plans to move back to the parents, who want me there in any case. They'll need me. There is still time to change things - immediately extricate ourselves from the Mideast, cut off support for Israel and tell them to sink or swim, let Mideast states know that getting out of line will be dramatically punished from above, tell Saudi Arabia to fuck off, start making things here again and get a handle on corporate stupidity and venality and make some legislative changes designed exclusively for the middle class, as in job protection, tariffs if needed, a general retreat from globalization, kick out all illegals and in general behave in a xenocritical way.
-drl
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Post #119,559
9/30/03 12:23:30 PM
9/30/03 12:24:12 PM
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I wouldn't rule out armed rebellion.
Hell, you and I have argued enough over the years about Amendment 2 to know what it means that I went out and got a firearm permit.
[Edit: typo]
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Edited by mmoffitt
Sept. 30, 2003, 12:24:12 PM EDT
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Post #119,563
9/30/03 12:45:03 PM
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Oh, that comes first...
Well not quite an economic collapse. There is a recovery on, don't you know? And of course there are plenty of alternatives available.
Rebellion only comes after all hope of resolving the issues through more accepted channels is exhausted. As you note, it is clear that hope is far from gone at this point. But a lot can change over a dozen years.
For an outline of the general themes that lead that way, see [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=107614|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=107614].
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #119,692
10/1/03 9:49:12 AM
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Do you really think any of that is going to happen?
I don't. I don't believe that things will change until it is too late. Why would Congress make legislative changes to beneift the middle class when the elites are the ones who finance their campaigns. In fact, given redistricting and the advantages of incumbency, there are very few competitive races in the House. The Congressmen get nice salaries, great benefits, and all kinds of perks. They aren't feeling the pain and therefore they aren't going to change the status quo that keeps them in power.
As for reversing globalization I don't see how that can happen. The whole corporate structure has come to depend on cheap foreign workers producing goods at low prices.
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Post #119,415
9/29/03 2:45:26 PM
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Re: With folks losing their jobs, I hate to post this.
They'll have to pry my Fj1200 from betweem my cold dead broke-ass legs :)
Sorry dude.
-drl
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Post #119,432
9/29/03 3:43:32 PM
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Well, that sucks!
You never did get in that flight to Lake Norman. :(
Alex
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
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Post #119,435
9/29/03 3:58:18 PM
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Upgrade to something cheaper, like a Cub or Champ
You'd still have an airplane, though only 2 place and not IFR, and odds are you'd also have several $10K in your pocket afterwards. Though you'd have to get used to the Armstrong starter.
Brian Bronson
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Post #119,867
10/2/03 4:17:34 PM
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Upgrade? To a Champ?
You're kidding, right? Thanks for the thought, but in the main the 172 was the family station wagon in the air. To borrow a phrase (book title actually) "Oh, the places you'll go!"
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #119,998
10/3/03 2:13:13 PM
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Well, of course, it's a taildragger ;-D
If you must have a 4 seater, then you're stuck. There are some good, classic 4 seaters out there, but they won't be any cheaper than a 172.
Brian Bronson
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Post #119,438
9/29/03 5:04:44 PM
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Sorry to hear it.
But - A dream delayed is not a dream destroyed.
Still sucks, though.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #119,444
9/29/03 5:54:34 PM
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Okay, now I feel better. Thanks *
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #119,456
9/29/03 7:08:47 PM
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Bite me.
What, I can barely afford a 1 bedroom apartment with a 1.5 hour commute to the nearest metropolitan area, and you're whining about having to dump yer plane?
:D Juuust kidding.
Each of us has his own dreams, no matter how opulent, and to lose that dream is a tragedy, which is not deserved.
Here's hoping you get a second chance at a plane...
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #119,529
9/30/03 9:15:35 AM
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Now THAT is more along the lines I expected.
The subject line anyway ;-)
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #119,702
10/1/03 10:54:04 AM
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:D
Thane's law of chat board flamage
A poster who is looking for a flame shall get one.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #119,468
9/29/03 8:42:58 PM
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bummer, any chance of trading down to an ultra lite?
not the same but at least airborne.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #119,486
9/29/03 10:19:33 PM
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Same sit here...
We've deferred replacing our torn up wood floor in our home for close to two years! We've been saving in case I lost my job, so we could at least stay in our house 6 months before we would have to move out.
I changed jobs in May, trying to get out of a "bad" situation, and may have put myself into a "worse" one.
My wife and I managed to have a very rare lunch together today, and she was ready to make some purchases (Crepe Myrtles to replace our nearly dead juniper out front, bedding plants for fall). I went ahead with the bedding plants, but the Crepe Myrtle is on hold 'till the spring.
She went looking for a Sony Clie today, because a friend at work had one. They have lots of medical reference info on the Clie, so my wife now wants one. But, when we were looking at them, she realized what $400 for one of those might mean later.
A month's groceries.
Glen Austin
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Post #119,515
9/30/03 3:45:24 AM
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Well . . .
I recall the delicious *pain* of trading a Vincent Shadow (same as flying, only more-so) for a Morris Minor (!) Best deal because they were "BMC" and could put it in showroom next to Jags n'such.. Because of 'Milly' (Ludmilla); ya can't take a lass out on a motor All the time. Etc. {sniff}
Condolences anyway. Sorta.. Know how ya feel :(
Ashton
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Post #119,864
10/2/03 3:56:54 PM
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I hear you
I'm holed up in a mostly unfurnished luxury condo I can't rent, grounded from skydiving due to lack of cash with a boat in dry dock. Incidentally, the condo is going before the boat. I had a family of 4 living in a boat next to me in Sausalito so I'm sure the 3 of us will be ok - but if I really need to hunker down, its hard to beat living on a boat for cost.
In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling.
--James Gosling
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Post #119,866
10/2/03 4:15:00 PM
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Thanks.
I hope it doesn't come to that for you.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #119,905
10/2/03 8:16:03 PM
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OT check this
[link|http://www.businessedge.com/businessedge/default.asp|http://www.businesse...sedge/default.asp]
they are always looking for a few bright guys. Drop them a res,
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
