Bummer

Post #119,407 by tuberculosis 9/29/03 1:53:13 PM Reply	Bummer I hear you on the 40-60% decrease. Not sure what to do about it. Where are you? In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling. --James Gosling
Post #119,434 by a6l6e6x 9/29/03 3:47:47 PM Reply	Jay is (or was) near Chicago. Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
Post #119,455 by jb4 9/29/03 7:04:38 PM Reply	Where, indeed! I am, as a6l6e6x said, in the Chicago area. Just got through talking to a headhunter type in Milwaukee (which is actually closer to my home than Chicago), stating that: "normal" software developers (whatever that means) are getting $45-50, while embedded engineers (that would be me) are getting $50-55. I started consulting 18 years ago, and my rate was $50 then. Gentlement (and ladies), our industry is in serious deep shit. jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #119,458 by deSitter 9/29/03 7:13:55 PM Reply	!!! Good Lord, I'd piss off the Brooklyn Bridge at lunchtime wearing a tutu for $50 an hour again! I haven't seen that since 1999. Went $50->$45 ->$30->$28. I'd actually be happy with $40 again. Shit I'd be in high cotton. You Cubs fans! Hey do you know any good hunters up there? -drl
Post #119,462 by jb4 9/29/03 7:27:21 PM Reply	Wow! First, what happened to your market in St. Louis??? I can attach the decline in the market here to Lucent, Motorola and 3Com tanking (thank you, golden parachutes!). What happened down there? Second, don't badmouth the Cubs. You had your chance, and if it weren't for a miserable call by a substandard, substitute ump, you'd have been swept in a 5-game set! (And tell that genius Matt Morris to put a cork in it, awready!) jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #119,464 by deSitter 9/29/03 7:33:57 PM Reply	Re: Wow! There is nothing here at all so far. There are small signs of extremely marginal improvement. Most of the jobs are in the 50k-65k per year range. I'd gladly sojourn in Chigaco again if you know a good hunter. My best skill is C on UNIX. I also do admin. I can't do Perl in good faith, but I be the shiz at shell. -drl
Post #119,481 by a6l6e6x 9/29/03 9:31:27 PM Reply	Don't forget the distinction between W2 and 1099 pay. There may be some benefits with W2. At least half the FICA and Medicare are paid by the employer. With 1099, you (one way or another) pay the whole enchilada. Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
Post #119,632 by tuberculosis 9/30/03 7:48:41 PM Reply	Remind me how to calculate that 'cause I've got a guy who doesn't want to pay W2 - he'll pay a whole 14% more for 1099. In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling. --James Gosling
Post #119,652 by a6l6e6x 9/30/03 9:45:45 PM Reply	Here's an IRS link that may help. [link\|http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id%3D15917,00.html\|Form 1099-MISC] income. When you get a W-2 you were an employee, you pay FICA (Social Security) and Medicare payments and your employer pays matching amounts. You would pay half of the combined rate shown in next paragraph. The employer deducts your portion of these taxes as well as income taxes every time you are paid. The employer also pays FUTA (towards unemployment funds) and likely even more to the state for similar purposes. The unemployment taxes are not high. For my company in North Carolina it was ~1%. When you get a 1099, you were a contractor and are responsible for all FICA and Medicare the taxes (15.3% up to $84,900 plus 2.9% for income above $84,900). You file a 1040 Schedule SE (Self-Employment Tax) form as part of your annual tax return. But half of this tax feeds back as a deduction on your 1040, so your actual rates may be lower. Like any deduction, it's value depends on your marginal* income tax rate. With a 1099 you would have to pay quarterly estimated taxes including the Self-Employment taxes. The marginal tax rate is the rate that one more dollar of income would be taxed. If your income is low enough it could be 0. But 25% may be typical for someone like you, i.e. married, filing jointly. So, you figure it out. You'd pay 7.65% with W-2. You'd pay about 13.4% with a 1099 on 14% more income. It's more paperwork, but I'd take that 1099. Of course, I am assuming no benefits with the W-2 case, e.g. no vacation/holdays, medical insurance, etc. WARNING: I am not a tax accountant! Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."* -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
Post #119,669 by kmself 10/1/03 12:04:20 AM Reply	Rule of thumb: 30-40% Should look at the specific taxes, SSN, disability, etc., contributed by your employer for a solid value. Also your downtime. --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #119,740 by jb4 10/1/03 5:28:31 PM Reply	That's a deal! In effect, he's paying both his FICA contribution and yours, too! You'll have to keep track of it, of course, and you'll have to make the actual payments, but that's a good deal (if you can get your rate in addition to the 14%) jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #119,465 by jake123 9/29/03 7:57:35 PM Reply	Seriously deep Depends on your point of view. If you're in management, and you've managed to axe your labour costs by that much, you're probably about as happy as a pig in shit. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #119,485 by tuberculosis 9/29/03 10:08:41 PM Reply	Funny - embedded is lower here. The embedded folks here (Denver) get a little less than the enterprise guys (which seems counter-intuitive to me as well). Heck, I'd love to switch to something a little more challenging. The highest pay is going to so-called J2EE "architects". I have no idea why. (Interesting stat - my Seaside implementation of a reference web app came in at 1/6 the size in terms of source code size and 1/3 the number of classes - seems inefficiency pays big). Prices are similar - I'm struggling to hold the line on contract W2 at $50/hour. I'm seeing embedded going from $35-$45 W2 around here. Its not worth doing 1099 through the local cannibals - they might give you $3-6 more per hour tops. In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling. --James Gosling
Post #119,533 by jb4 9/30/03 9:46:40 AM Reply	Of course inefficiency pays If you have to slog through 6 times the size of the pile, you can charge 6 times the number of hours! jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com

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