Self-checkout systems create market for thieves

Post #115,398 by lincoln 8/26/03 8:11:22 AM Reply	Self-checkout systems create market for thieves It was a fast trip to Home Depot. In and out. A quick walk to the tool department and the customer had what he'd come for: a $600 DeWalt sliding miter saw. With only one item, he skipped the long line at the regular counter, opting instead for the self-checkout lane. By himself, he scanned the price code, inserted a credit card, signed on the screen and took the receipt. He was on his way. The transaction underscored the ease of the modern self-checkout system, a high-tech convenience for retailers and consumers. But this time it was a little too convenient. The credit card was stolen and the customer was a thief, according to police. Within a week, he repeated the process, using six cards to fraudulently charge $12,000 in merchandise at a Home Depot in Sacramento, Calif. And never during his visits last spring -- some of which involved major purchases such as John Deere riding lawnmowers and a washer and dryer set -- did he hear, "May I see your ID?" The ease with which the fraud was carried out alarms police and industry experts already apprehensive about the public's vulnerability to credit card fraud. The Federal Trade Commission estimates the loss related to such crimes at hundreds of millions of dollars annually. Experts say popular retail gadgets such as self-checkout are contributing to a rise in fraud rates and will continue to do so unless retailers become proactive in protecting themselves and customers. Speed and convenience have made the most basic fraud deterrent -- checking IDs -- nearly obsolete. Crooks know this, police say, and are abusing the technology with frequency. "The first place criminals usually hit with stolen credit cards is gas stations, many of which offer pay-at-the-pump systems," said Folsom (Calif.) Police Detective Robert Challoner. Their next stop, he said, is stores with point-of-sale and self-checkout systems. [link\|http://www.statesman.com/business/content/auto/epaper/editions/thursday/business_f344f643a2905147005f.html\|link] lincoln "If you're on your deathbed and you haven't got a story to tell, then you haven't lived. - Asa Baber" [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm\|VB/SQL resume] [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm\|Tandem resume] [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #115,464 by altmann 8/26/03 5:13:31 PM Reply	I Hate Home Despot's Self-Checkout System First off, the bar code scanner doesn't seem to be omni directional, so you have to get the swipe just right. Then you have the hanging plastic bag in which you are required to place the item after scanning. Under the bag is a presssure plate which must register the placement of the item. Now picture this sequence: I go up to the register with one of those extension cord on a reel with power strip things and a pack of AA batteries. I scan the extension cord and place it on the plate but not in the bag as it is kind of bulky. I then (eventually) get the batteries scanned and place them in the bag. But the batteries are light so they don't push to the bottom of the plastic bag and register on the pressure plate. The register thinks I'm trying to pull something and keeps nagging me to place the item in the bag (It puts the item in the bag or it gets the hose!). Clever that I am, I grab the extension cord to put it in the bag to open it up so the batteries can fall. Now it complains that I've removed that from the bag area. I almost threw the thing across the store instead. The pretty register attendant then came over to help/calm things down. She must hate her job. I'm not even sure how you are supposed to check out things that don't fit in the bag or on the plate. And they ripped out 3 or 4 normal registers for this. Hopefully the credit card fraud victims and/or the CC companies catch the fraud and Home Despot gets stuck with the loss. They deserve it. -- Chris Altmann
Post #115,468 by admin 8/26/03 5:27:38 PM Reply	I love those things. Kroger has them as well. I can get through the line in 1/10th the time it takes with a normal line. Swipe, swipe, swipe, CC, done. Badda bing. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,469 by altmann 8/26/03 5:54:52 PM Reply	No one uses them. Therefore no line :) -- Chris Altmann
Post #115,470 by admin 8/26/03 6:00:45 PM Reply	Nope. Always people using them. But they're much faster than the normal ones, so you never get a line. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,474 by Ashton 8/26/03 7:08:51 PM Reply	Convenience - yes Like ATM. In the end it's pure Econ-MBA-accounting: and a further reduction of the kinds of jobs ~ checkout, for which a certain large segment of any population is.. well suited. All those who really Cannot accumulate and absorb the massive amount of excruciatingly trivial details of the techno-Way of digitizing all things: These are the lawful prey of the callow-MBA and his attention-seeking, Look-at-Me! Cost-saving proposals to management. On that ladder. So then - where shall These People go? Is guaranteed perpetual poverty our solution for all those who can be excellent craftspersons, say - but not parse Boolean menus? Hmm - maybe they could be retrained to do COBOL, per another thread. I can see my excellent mechanic now... locked in That classroom. (Let's not even think about the 'middle-class' - umm is that where we place the sterotypical-PHB? - who prolly could Not put tab-A into slot-B on a bet, when that's the only next opening for him.) Ashton Sociology Puzzles LLC
Post #115,478 by altmann 8/26/03 7:30:28 PM Reply	While I'm on a roll re: ATM's I had become quite adept at using my bank's simple white text on blue screen ATM interface. I found I could quickly and covertly enter my PIN with two hands and could also do my usual routine (check 2 balances, maybe deposit a check, get some cash). Now they have these new colorful displays with ads for stamps and other embellishments. And now the keyboard can't keep up with my typing. Ugh. -- Chris Altmann
Post #115,480 by admin 8/26/03 8:54:03 PM Reply	Sorry, don't agree. It's a much better solution than waiting for a human. Yeah, there are a few fewer checkout people (not many, because they still have one for every few automatic lanes). But it's a hell of a lot more convenient for me. Keeping people around just to keep people around is the worst of a union mentality. No thank you. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #115,479 by Ashton 8/26/03 7:43:30 PM 8/26/03 7:45:14 PM Reply	Dupe via dopish click. Like ATM. In the end it's pure Econ-MBA-accounting: and a further reduction of the kinds of jobs ~ checkout, for which a certain large segment of any population is.. well suited. All those who really Cannot accumulate and absorb the massive amount of excruciatingly trivial details of the techno-Way of digitizing all things of life: These are the lawful prey of the callow-MBA and his Hey! Look-at-Me! Cost-saving proposals to management. So then - where shall These People go? Is guaranteed perpetual poverty our solution for all those who can be excellent craftspersons, say - but not parse Boolean menus? Hmm - maybe they could be retrained to do COBOL, per another thread. I can see my excellent mechanic now... locked in That classroom. Me? I usually go where there's a person involved: may be my last chance each week! - to see anything but machines in 'stores'. Or banks. Or - (Let's not even think about the 'middle-class' - umm is that where we assign the sterotypical-PHB? - who prolly could Not put tab-A into slot-B on a bet, when that becomes: the only next opening for him.) Ashton Sociology Puzzles LLC Edited by Ashton Aug. 26, 2003, 07:45:14 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #115,492 by gdaustin 8/26/03 9:51:47 PM Reply	When there's Four Self-Checks open, and two live checkers... I go for the self-check. What irritates me is that if you don't put the item in the bag immediately after scanning it, or if you have a kid leaning on the bagging scale (it is weighing to see that you scan, then put it in the bag ), then it bitches all the time and you can't get done quickly. The issue I have is that the person watching the self-checks (sometimes there isn't one), doesn't seem to give a rip that you might be stealing. They just clear the code and move on. Why have the bagging scale at all? It can't possily be accurate either, to know the weight of what you bagged. But, when there are no humans and lots of self-checks, it's the way to go. Glen Austin
Post #115,527 by lincoln 8/27/03 8:34:46 AM Reply	Re: I love those things. Swipe, swipe, swipe, CC, done. Badda bing DON'T DISRESPECT THE BING!!! Sorry - I've just finished renting and watching the first three seasons of The Sopranos on DVD. I think that this will be the first soap opera that I'll admit to watching and enjoying. Hope season 4 hits the DVD shelf soon, so that I can catch up. While I'm away from the family I might even spring for HBO for season 5... lincoln "If you're on your deathbed and you haven't got a story to tell, then you haven't lived. - Asa Baber" [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm\|VB/SQL resume] [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm\|Tandem resume] [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #115,497 by boxley 8/26/03 10:08:01 PM Reply	Slight note, my bank card agreement does not allow a merchant to ask for my ID. If they do I get in High "Who the fuck are you"mode. I have a credit card that allows the checker to compare my sig and either make the sale or refuse it. If stuff is stolen it is because the card holder is not aware o the theft and doesnt report it. Keeping your 1 credit card maxxed out :-) prevents theft. You have much better defences against theft than a debit card. I love self checkout, I dont have to wait for the dumass clerk to finnish making a date for the evening, talk for 1/2 an hr to the mook in front of me because he/they are clueless and changing the tape when I arrive. I can enter a store, buy what I wish without ever interfacing with a minimum wage ghoul whose whole aim is to end the shift with the least work possible. thanx, bill America, Love it or give it back questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #115,560 by orion 8/27/03 2:41:09 PM Reply	Self checkout solution Have it check for signature as well, it can be compared to the original signature to see if the card was used for fraud. Problem then is if someone lets their kid use their credit card, the sig won't match. I wouldn't do that with my kid, I'd get him his own pre-paid credit card with a $500USD limit until he is old enough to manage his own money and pay off debts responsibly. Also don't they have cameras on those Self Checkout devices just in case someone is committing fraud or trying to steal something? Personally I think that credit cards should have a four number pin like ATM cards, without the pin you cannot charge on it. Someone steals your card, and it is useless unless you wrote your pin on the back or in your wallet they stole. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #115,628 by boxley 8/27/03 9:07:21 PM Reply	I have a dozen ways to get your pin without you knowing America, Love it or give it back questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #115,679 by jbrabeck 8/28/03 11:52:48 AM Reply	The easiest being Stand over left (or right) shoulder and watch. You'd be surprised at how many system passwords I gathered by watching users, admin and supervisors.

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