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New Where's Osama?
A thread documenting the search for bin Laden.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New Satellite 'picks out bin Laden caves'
[link|http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001340007-2001342104,00.html|Satellite 'picks out bin Laden caves']

Excerpt:

Pakistani intelligence is convinced, the reports said, that bin Laden and hundreds of his associates have taken refuge in an extremely inaccessible nook of Pamir in the Wakhan corridor bordering Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan and China.

A report published in a leading Pakistani newspaper claimed that bin Laden\ufffds presence in the region had been confirmed by satellite and human intelligence.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New Northern Alliance says they can find him easily.
[link|http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/03/wtal103.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/03/ixhome.html|We can find bin Laden in days, say guerrillas]

Excerpt:

If Western intelligence agencies are to be believed, locating bin Laden has proved enormously difficult. He is reported to travel each day to a new location, only revealing his itinerary at the last moment.

But Afghan commanders say such stories are exaggerated. They contend the country is awash with shepherds, nomads and spies that can locate the world's most wanted man in a matter of days.

Now the whisper from across the front line is that he may have taken refuge in a long, sweeping valley called Dara Kayan, which stretches south from Pol-e Komri. Locals say the rolling valley would afford bin Laden a high degree of protection and keep him away from inquisitive locals.

Former residents say the area has been cleared of its population and attempts made by the Taliban authorities to seal it. A refugee forced out of Dara Kayan said: "It is an open secret bin Laden went there in 1998 after America launched cruise missiles against al-Qa'eda bases near Kandahar."

Commander Momar Hasan of the opposition Northern Alliance, who controls the Dushti Qala front near the border with Tajikistan, said bin Laden had also used the valley as a refuge several times since. He said: "We know from the reports of our people that bin Laden was there much of last year.

"If the Americans want to know where he is they should come to us. We have spies, we have people who could find out. It is really not so difficult." But if the West can locate bin Laden, seizing him may prove harder.


[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New CIA gave it the old college try
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61219-2001Oct2.html|But they kept missing].

Excerpt:

The operation was aborted on Oct. 12, 1999, however, when Sharif was overthrown in a military coup led by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who refused to continue the operation despite substantial efforts by the Clinton administration to revive it.

I say:

Unreliable allies suck.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New All about UAV's
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. They're like model airplanes, but way bigger and a lot more useful.

[link|http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/military_predator.html|Predator UAV]
[link|http://uav.wff.nasa.gov/|NASA's UAV page]
[link|http://www.af.mil/lib/afissues/1997/app_b_16.html|Air Force UAV page]
[link|http://nationaldefense.ndia.org/article.cfm?Id=402|UAV and coastal warfare]
[link|http://www.unmannedaircraft.com/|A site with lots of pictures]

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New Infringes my TLA! Urban Assault Vehicle\ufffd_______ but cute.
New You mean they are *not* catapulting Expeditions?
My hopes have been dashed.
Alex

Whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
New Not til I'm made procurement officer for 'expendables' ..
New Actually...
I watched a show in TLC about some loony British Earl (or Duke, or somesuch) who has a passion for slinging very, very large objects with a gigantic trebuchet.

We watched him sling a small car and a grand piano (filled with petrol, quite a show).

His next trebuchet is to be built of steel instead of wood, on a much larger scale. That one will probably be capable of catapulting Expeditions.
Regards,

-scott anderson
New Which cave has bin Laden?
[link|http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-caves10.html|Neat stuff about ground penetrating radar and other techniques]

Excerpt:

Besides, Wilt adds, cave detection poses obvious practical problems in wartime. Because even sophisticated devices may not discern one of bin Laden's caves from more than ''a few hundred feet away, he's not going to let you get any closer.''

I say:

If they're trying to keep us away from a location, that's a dead giveaway. Find the nearest cave entrance with a UAV, then send a Tomohawk right down its throat. Any questions?

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Like father, like son
[link|http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/shtml/NEWS/P2S2.shtml|Asshole son proud of asshole father]

Excerpt:

For the whole interview, despite his determination to get his father's message across to the Western world, he never once acknowledges my presence.

The rules have been made very clear to us. I, as a non-Muslim, am not allowed to speak directly to Abdullah.

He does not shake my hand or look me in the face. There are no familiarities. My Muslim interpreter is offered green tea. But photographer Alban Donohoe and I are simply ignored.

The tense atmosphere and lack of refreshments is a far cry from the warm, even overbearing, hospitality we received from other leading Taliban figures and ordinary Muslims during our travels through Pakistan.

We can only assume it an expression of his personal contempt for all things Western.

What is clearly apparent as he speaks in the Afghan language, Pushto, and waits for his replies to be translated into English - is that 18-year-old Abdullah is a highly intelligent young man, and he is devoted to his father.

Our meeting produces a fascinating insight into the secret life of the man who has triggered the current world crisis.

ABDULLAH reveals that his father is living in a cave in the mountains of Afghanistan - where he fled on the day of the American attacks.

Like his father, he is unbowed by last week's ferocious bombing strikes by the Allied forces on Afghanistan.

He says: "I am not worried that my father will be caught. He has outsmarted the Americans for many years. But, in my heart, I do not know when I will see him again."

Abdullah is one of bin Laden's 42 children. His mother, Sabiha, 45, is the fifth of his five wives.


[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New So, was THAT Doug Adams' "Ultimate Question" ?!?
Abdullah is one of bin Laden's 42 children. [Emphasis added - CRC]
Holy FUCK -- I mean, *talk* about breeding like a freaking rabbit!


His mother, Sabiha, 45, is the fifth of his five wives.
Consecutive, or sequential...?
   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
New Shhh..
You're not s'posed to let on that Adams was right,

This *is* The Year of the Jackpot*






The natives might become restless and make a lot of noise, disturbing the revelry.

*Short story maybe but probably not by PK Dick, re something - happening - to the Sun. Potiphar Breen is the hero, sorta.
New Ah, Potiphar Breen! Yes, that was Dick, AFAICR.
New OK.. well then
Keep it under wraps, OK?

I mean *sheesh* can you Imagine how upset the bankers'd get, if they knew ____?

(My Plan: escape at night..)
New Geologist says he's identified that rock behind Osama
[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1608000/1608272.stm|No, really]

Excerpt:

Jack Shroder, from the University of Nebraska at Omaha, reported his conclusions to US security agencies after assessing a cave that featured in a Bin Laden video released after the first US bombs fell on the Afghanistan on 7 October.

He said the cave was typical of the Paktia or Paktika provinces of the Katawaz basin, about 210 kilometres (130 miles) south of the Afghan capital.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New UK as well
BBC carried an item about a British geologist who also recognized the formation. He told a colleague, fellow geologist and MP (I guess studying rocks is a useful job skill for a legislator).

In related news, the US has reported locating ObL within a 20 mile square region of Afghanistan, but one which is so mountainous and cave-ridden that precise location is considered extremely difficult.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
New Assassination rumors from China
[link|http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/interrogatory102501b.shtml|Make of it what you will]

Excerpt:

James S. Robbins: On October 24 a Chinese internet news site, Zhongxin Wang, ran a piece describing in detail the purported assassination of Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar by members of their retinue at an underground base near Kandahar on October 16. They were both shot twice in the back. One of bin Laden's sons and two of Omar's were also killed. The story was picked up today by the Tokyo-based Yomiuru Shimbun, the largest daily newspaper in Japan. Of course rumors and war go hand in hand, and without proof one way or another what is one to think?


[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New ABC: U.S. Search for Bin Laden Narrows
[link|http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/STRIKE_MAIN.html|Here]

Excerpt:

Nov. 2 \ufffd The hunt for Osama bin Laden has narrowed to a few complexes of caves and tunnels, intelligence officials tell ABCNEWS, as U.S. bombs continue to pound Taliban troop positions in Afghanistan.

The United States has the suspected mountain hideouts of the alleged terror mastermind under 24-hour surveillance from the air and ground, sources say. Now, the debate is whether to go after bin Laden and other leaders of his al Qaeda terror network by using 5,000-pound "bunker buster" bombs, or to take the greater risk of sending in commandos.
The benefit of sending in special operations forces after bin Laden is the certainty of knowing his fate, experts say.

"I think there's a huge upside for the American and allied effort to actually capturing or very definitively confirming the killing of some of the al Qaeda leaders to include bin Laden," said John Hillen, who was in the U.S. special forces for six years.

Defense sources say that plans for raids against bin Laden's strongholds are constantly being revised and rehearsed. Military planners are waiting for the right information and conditions, and a decision by President Bush to make their move, they say.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New We should make sure Bin Laden is killed by Muslims
That would go a long way to disarming the martyr effect.

Second best would be for him to simply disappear and never be heard from again (as in sealed in some unknown cave)
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Like those Turkish commandos they sent over? -msg
Ray
New No, Turkey's practically a Western nation here . .
(Errr, sorry about that, CRC).

The Northern Alliance would be OK, but preferable by far would be some revolt in the Taliban.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Re: ABC: U.S. Search for Bin Laden Narrows
Could use bunker busters but ground troops have to go in to at least positively id him before they bomb. I won't be satisfied/relieved with Rumsfeld making a press announcement saying 'We probably got him'. Besides, I think there are few Rangers and Delta Force commandos who would like have his body so that they could drag it around (ala Somalia).
Ray
New A positive ID matters
When a popular military leader vanish without confirmation of death, there tend to be unconfirmed sightings later. Upon these unconfirmed sightings tends to grow a body of legend completely out of proportion to that person's actual deeds, and frequently with recurring legends that he will come back to life at some future point.

This has happened in a number of cultures in the past. For instance it is quite possible that the legend of King Arthur started among the Welsh in exactly this way.

We don't want this to happen with Osama...

Cheers,
Ben
New Utter nonsense..
Why next you'd tell us that, say - umm JFK or Elvis.. were appearing in visions - and that people believed that! Have you no respect for the basic common sense of most people?





Frodo Lives!

New Ladies and gentlemen, Osama has left the country.
[link|http://www.nandotimes.com/front/story/172405p-1666369c.html|Honest he has]
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Tell 'em it doesn't change a thing.
We were pounding 'em for harboring him.
Now we're pounding 'em for letting him get away.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Same Taliban envoy to Pakistan...
denied he knew where Osama was or wasn't to [link|http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/11/17/ret.taliban.binladen/index.html|CNN.
]
Alex

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
New Sunday Times we've got him cornered.
[link|http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/article/0,,9002-2001531181,00.html|But he's uncomfortably near the border]

Excerpts:

A British defence intelligence source said he was believed to be "static" somewhere to the southeast of Kandahar. "For a variety of reasons we can be confident that he has not been able to move far." Last night the Taliban envoy to Pakistan refuted claims that Bin Laden had left the country with his wives and children. "Osama is inside Afghanistan but I don't know whether he is in our territory or the area controlled by the Northern Alliance," said Salam Zaeef.

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, has warned that Bin Laden might have access to a helicopter that could try to leave Afghanistan for a possible rendezvous with a private jet in Pakistan. However, America has imposed what it calls a "total picture" over the region, meaning that a mixture of satellite, spy plane and special forces cover should enable it to trace any movement on the ground.

The special forces arrived near Kandahar 10 days ago to block off escape routes and engage the enemy. "It has been about aggression and surprise," said one source. "We want to send a clear message that there is no safe way out to the rear of the Kandahar position."

...The plans were thrown into confusion yesterday, however, when Alliance commanders suggested that no more coalition troops would be welcome in the country. Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, telephoned Dr Abdullah Abdullah, his Alliance counterpart, who said last night: "If you are talking about the presence of thousands of fighting troops from outside Afghanistan, this is a major issue which has to be discussed. The events of the past few days showed that the forces which were capable of doing the job on the ground were the forces of the [Alliance]."
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Eastern Alliance says they've pinpointed his cave
[link|http://www.msnbc.com/news/627086.asp?pne=msntv&cp1=1|They're kind of sure he's in there]

Excerpt:

Hazrat Ali, defense chief of the U.S.-backed alliance of eastern tribes, said Friday his forces found a cave thought to be bin Laden\ufffds personal shelter as they surrounded a large number of his al-Qaida guerrillas on a mountain ridge in the area.
Earlier Friday, Ali, relying on running radio reports from the battlefield, told reporters his men had captured, entered and searched the cave. However, later he said they only located it and were trying to capture it.
\ufffdThere is one cave surrounded by my forces. ... I think there is one place inside where Osama is,\ufffd he said.
Ali gave no further details and did not specify why he thought bin Laden might be inside the cave, one of several in a gorge where his tribesmen were fighting al-Qaida forces amid heavy U.S. aerial bombing. He said that the battle for the position was continuing Friday and that there were many al-Qaida dead and wounded.
\ufffdThey are surrounded, and they cannot escape,\ufffd he said. His claim could not be independently verified because Western journalists have been barred from the battle zone.
Said Mohammed Pahalawn, a deputy of Mohammed Zaman, who commands another alliance faction, said 100 to 120 al-Qaida fighters were surrounded in a depression on the mountain ridge and were under attack from the ground and the air.
\ufffdWe have seen the place,\ufffd Pahalawn said of bin Laden\ufffds cave. \ufffdThe U.S. is bombing the area, but the opening of the cave is safe from bombing. The bombs can\ufffdt reach it.\ufffd

I say:

Bombs can't reach it? Is there an overhang or something? Maybe a guided missile coming in at a low angle will do the job.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Ya think The World will settle for DNA evidence from shards
on rubble? re 'his demise' as martyr? (After 3 months of 24/7 DNA machine analysis of buckets o' blood from all over)

West needs a body, even if it means we can't use our safer, more infernal transistorized machines from afar. I (merely suspect) this may be some part of the equation for his denouement.


A.
     Where's Osama? - (marlowe) - (30)
         Satellite 'picks out bin Laden caves' - (marlowe)
         Northern Alliance says they can find him easily. - (marlowe)
         CIA gave it the old college try - (marlowe)
         All about UAV's - (marlowe) - (4)
             Infringes my TLA! Urban Assault Vehicle\ufffd_______ but cute. -NT - (Ashton) - (3)
                 You mean they are *not* catapulting Expeditions? - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                     Not til I'm made procurement officer for 'expendables' .. -NT - (Ashton)
                     Actually... - (admin)
         Which cave has bin Laden? - (marlowe)
         Like father, like son - (marlowe) - (4)
             So, was THAT Doug Adams' "Ultimate Question" ?!? - (CRConrad) - (3)
                 Shhh.. - (Ashton) - (2)
                     Ah, Potiphar Breen! Yes, that was Dick, AFAICR. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                         OK.. well then - (Ashton)
         Geologist says he's identified that rock behind Osama - (marlowe) - (1)
             UK as well - (kmself)
         Assassination rumors from China - (marlowe)
         ABC: U.S. Search for Bin Laden Narrows - (marlowe) - (6)
             We should make sure Bin Laden is killed by Muslims - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                 Like those Turkish commandos they sent over? -msg -NT - (rsf) - (1)
                     No, Turkey's practically a Western nation here . . - (Andrew Grygus)
             Re: ABC: U.S. Search for Bin Laden Narrows - (rsf)
             A positive ID matters - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                 Utter nonsense.. - (Ashton)
         Ladies and gentlemen, Osama has left the country. - (marlowe) - (2)
             Tell 'em it doesn't change a thing. - (Andrew Grygus)
             Same Taliban envoy to Pakistan... - (a6l6e6x)
         Sunday Times we've got him cornered. - (marlowe)
         Eastern Alliance says they've pinpointed his cave - (marlowe) - (1)
             Ya think The World will settle for DNA evidence from shards - (Ashton)

TILL-AYYYYY!!
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