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New TopMind Collectibles
Not that I want to rehash (or that I even that I care about the subject matter), but since you seem to collect [link|http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/ObjectsHaveFailed.pdf|these sorts of links], thought I'd post it in case you hadn't run across it.

Read, enjoy, but mostly debate it elsewhere. :-)
New That's a good paper
that arrives at the wrong conclusions.

When he says OOP, he means the pseudo OOP embodied in Java, C++, C#, you know - static pretend OOP.

At least part of this conclusion stems from the idea that these OOP wannabes somehow captured the OOPness of their more dynamic predecessors. He definitely hit the nail on the head when he asserts that

1) We have been lied to by the methodologists and academics about how to build systems
2) Programming languages have devolved in an undesireable direction largely due to FUD.
3) This has not been good for the state of the art.

But we've all been rehashing this here forever - it sucks to be enlightened in the modern development world - nobody cares and you just get shunned as a heretic when you speak what you know (knowledge gained - at least in my case - from trying to do things the "correct" way, taking my lumps when things failed, and careful analysis of the causes of failure).

The paper would be better titled - static languages have failed. And in many ways they have and continue to do so every day.



"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
New Well, to be fair, let's point out...
...that there is a page on the opposite viewpoint, too: "[link|http://www.dreamsongs.com/ObjectsHaveNotFailedNarr.html|Objects Have Not Failed]".


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Dumb arguments
Paraphrased:

1. "See how popular static-typed OOP is"

Popularity and usability are not necessarily related. Witness Windows popularity over OS/2, Mac, Linux, etc. Besides, many OO fans say that actual Java code being written is often "too procedural".

2. "Naked arrays are messy"

Yes, they are. That is why we use RDBMS more now. It uses bad procedural techniques to compare to decent OOP (if there is such a thing).

3. "C++ is better than C"

No duh. C sucks. It is no more the pinnacle of procedural languages than Yugo's are the pinnacle of passenger cars. C is popular mostly for its hardware-friendly traits, not its software engineering traits.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Beg to disagree on #3
C doesn't suck. It is quite nice for what it was designed for. It is essentially warmed over PDP assembly language that, being slightly older than god, has evolved a socialized and well defined user interface. It may not be appropriate for a large project. Consider using the proper tool for the job at hand. An air wrench is good for removing the lug nuts from your car, but it would kill the cones of your bicycle wheels.

I write mostly driver level code. C is just ducky for me. I have been using it for an embarrassingly long time and it feels like a long-term lover to me; I'm aware of zits and wrinkles and no longer see them as meaningful. If I did a lot of large hairy user level apps, I would certainly use a different language.

I am absolutely certain that your mileage will vary\ufffd

Cheers,
Hugh

New totally agreed
-drl
New Doesn't really contradict what I said. Dev.drvrs close to HW
________________
oop.ismad.com
     TopMind Collectibles - (ChrisR) - (6)
         That's a good paper - (tuberculosis)
         Well, to be fair, let's point out... - (CRConrad) - (4)
             Dumb arguments - (tablizer) - (3)
                 Beg to disagree on #3 - (hnick) - (2)
                     totally agreed -NT - (deSitter)
                     Doesn't really contradict what I said. Dev.drvrs close to HW -NT - (tablizer)

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