Post #103,873
5/28/03 5:21:23 PM
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OK, but...
if the Format is the problem, and Top 40 is the Format... then isn't Top 40 the problem?
I mean, I suppose you can argue that Modern Rock doesn't reflect the overall Top 40, but that kind of programming certainly reflects the Top 40 of the specific genre of Modern Rock... right?
I haven't ever been a DJ, so I'm not as familiar with the subtle nuances like you guys are.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #103,877
5/28/03 5:55:18 PM
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if I understand it correctly
top 40 = format, not Format.
format = type of music played: rock, country, jazz, etc
Format = playlist run amok
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #103,883
5/28/03 6:37:00 PM
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You got it, Spice!
You can Format C&W, AOR, Top40 (which was the first, hence it being a convenient target for disdain...that, plus all Top40 music sucks), TechnoIndustrial, whatever.
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #103,988
5/29/03 12:25:13 PM
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Does WXRT in Chicago still exist?
From my college days forward, they were the most radical station that I ever knew. In a 1/2 hour timeframe, they could go from Willie Nelson to the Pet Shop Boys to Led Zepplin to Natalie Merchant; in other words, true free form in a way that the listeners EXPECTED and ENJOYED. I can't begin to mention all of the musicians that I never would have heard had it not been for their getting played on WXRT. Biggest problem with them was that their signal didn't carry well into the far suburbs, with the station located on west Belmont (or Addison, I think).
Does anyone know if they're still as great as I remember?
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
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Post #103,989
5/29/03 12:29:52 PM
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Yes, they still exist
I don't listen to 'em, however. Living in Naperville, I know that I can get their signal if I want, but I choose not to.
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #104,006
5/29/03 3:32:54 PM
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Yeah, in a manner of speaking
They're still there, in name if not entirely in spirit.
They got bought by one of the pigopolists, and although the same people are still there (Terry Hemmert, Wendy Rice, Tom Marker, et al), they have been...er, "compromised". More commercials than music, tireless self-promotion, call letters before and after every cut...in short, the Format, only tailored (grudgingly, I'm sure) to the fact that if they were fully inCorporated, the owners would lose whats left of the gem in the proverbial five-and-dime store.
As it stands, I just can't stand to listen to them (except during Flashback, Saturdays 8a-12n), because every time...and I mean every TIME! I tune them in, they're playing a commercial. (Sets are no longer than 2 cuts each, and they have no more than 5 sets an hour. Do the math...!)
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #103,878
5/28/03 5:56:03 PM
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I think jb hit the nuance..
...with the format versus Format style.
What is being done now with >F<ormatting is a tight control exersize of the music played...so in the different >f<ormats...all are ending up as you say...the Top 40 of modern rock etc...
So maybe I missed your original play on Top 40...but in essence it has degenerated to a Top 40 rock, Top 40 adult contemporary, Top 40 hiphop...so I'll concede to that...but not in the historical [link|http://www.radioexpress.com/ewklyprog/eat40.html|Casey Kasem] sense. There was a time with the Billboard Top 40 was a radio >f<ormat...you played those songs...plus some older ones from the same list...tossed in a few throwbacks and repeat...old pop radio. What the F brought was that same mentality for all the little fs...but not in response to the existence of Top 40.
The problem really is the demand from the ratings and demographics folks and their "need" to establish a tighter control over those you "appeal" to. (to the detriment of those who appreciate music). Its not a "Top 40" mentality though...its a branding attempt (Magic", B-one o, Z98...yadda)...an attempt to burn your brand into the psyche of the listeners.
The problem is, cost of stations is now so inflated (thanks Clearchannel) that folks with vision and an alternative cannot afford to play anymore. Those with vision are few, far between and are all among the 20% of the remaining stations that weren't gobbled up in the past 15 years.
And it promises to get worse...as they are now removing the DJs from the equation...and automating the stations completely.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #103,879
5/28/03 6:02:34 PM
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Ah, I see. I got my terminology wrong.
In my article, I was treating Top 40 as a >F<ormat -- because originally it had nothing to do with musical genres at all! When Top 40 was first introduced, the only thing that really mattered was what was selling the most, so you could get Sinatra and the Beatles on the same radio station. But the process was to play from a specific list, and time went into researching that list, etc... so I guess I considered the Top 40 genre altogether different from the Top 40 Format (or, I guess process works just as well) and I was focusing on the latter.
I think perhaps a followup article sorting all that stuff out would be helpful.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #103,884
5/28/03 6:49:02 PM
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And another thing...
The problem is, cost of stations is now so inflated (thanks Clearchannel) that folks with vision and an alternative cannot afford to play anymore. Those with vision are few, far between and are all among the 20% of the remaining stations that weren't gobbled up in the past 15 years. There is another issue: source. Despite the payola scandals of the '70s, it still exists, but Reganified (sorry, BeeP, couldn't resist). It's now sanitized, made respectable (sorta), institutionalized, until now, what was once illegal is now expected. The only outfits that can pay the juice are the "Big 5" (Sony, Warner, EMI, Bartlesman, and whoever I forgot as the fifth bastard). What do they pay for? The artists for whom they have the biggest A&R budgets; that is, the megastars -- the proven producers whose names are automatically equated with sales, regardless of how badly their latest opus was mailed in. So consider: You have most of the outlets in the hands of the few (or the one), and you have most of the source in the hands of the few, and they stroke each other outputing the S.O.S. over and over and overandoverandover andoverandoverandoverandover....you get the idea. So where's the new stuff (you know...the stuff you want to listen to) coming from? And where are you gonna hear it? I don't either! Given this, does anyone really believe that the reason radio ratings continue to decline, and record sales continue to decline, is because of KaZaA? jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #103,894
5/28/03 7:47:27 PM
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Decline due to file sharing
is almost certainly not the fact of the matter, but it sure makes a convenient scapegoat to get the decision makers involved in turning radio and the record industry into crap off the hook.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #104,013
5/29/03 4:28:56 PM
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Re: And another thing...
So where's the new stuff (you know...the stuff you want to listen to) coming from? And where are you gonna hear it? Well, for the most part, (although I could be wrong), you hear about new music coming out or albums being produced on TV or other media almost as much as radio, these days, especially the internet. I am not one who looks for new music anymore, I stopped really liking "modern" music sometime in the late 80's and stick with my tried and true 70's rock for the most part now. But once upon a time, I used the radio to learn new songs for my mom's band, and was paid to transcribe lyrics for them, among other things. So I know the radio used to be one of the main sources of publicity for new bands and such. Of course, that was before the advent of music videos and other media designed to showcase new music. I don't either! Given this, does anyone really believe that the reason radio ratings continue to decline, and record sales continue to decline, is because of KaZaA? Well it isn't cause of me, cause I sure never use KaZaa, in fact, I don't have one single midi song or whatever those computer music bits are called, on my whole computer unless you count the start up and end of bits of an Elton John tune. ;) Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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