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New Saving Radio
Not exactly something for "Politics", methinks. So I thought I'd post the link here to see what y'all think. A recent musing of mine:

[link|http://www.baptistdeathray.com/archives/00000018.html|http://www.baptistde...ves/00000018.html]

"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Since WHEN, did joo become such an
Activist?

Gosh Chris, someone might actually mistake you for a Comic Strip Writer.

Wow, the [link|http://www.clearchannel.com|RIAA equivalent] in the Advertisment/Communications Industry might blacklist you.

Careful, they have been known to be that way. And have shown effective ways to make it across many boundaries.

Tread lightly, but carry a BIG-DAGGONE CLUE-STICK!

[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]

THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.
The time has come for you to take the last step.
You must love THEM.
It is not enough to obey THEM.
You must love THEM.

PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
New Who, me?
But I am just a simple Virginia boy, with no mind for these big-city ways. :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Disagree
Top 40 was a >format<...not the end of all things.

In most cities there was a >top 40< station...a rock station (aor) a classics station (usually motown and ilk) etc.

What happened post consolidation is the segmentation into demographics...and each station plays to that specific demographic...and thus become stale >really fast<. Who wants to spend all day listening to music that appeals to 26-34 year old women (unless you are a 26-34 year old woman...of course). Even so, it has relegated radio to "backround noise" as opposed to anything that you would listem to for new and exciting sounds.

All of this has placed a critical importance on college radio. Unfortunately, college radio reacted with some hostility to the major labels and has gone to indy labels for music.

Double whammy...you get nothing but >sameness< from major radio that drives sales of major labels...and no support of alternative music from the real >buyers< of music...the young college/professional...

The 80s should be an example of how independent radio is supposed to work...college radio pushed little "no-name" bands like REM, Depeche Mode, New Order, Midnight Oil, Peter Gabriel...and that exposure..combined with major label support and a vibrant MTV (now MTV2...the one that plays >music<)...turned this music into mainstream.

There is hope...albeit slim, that music is making a comeback. What we need are the major labels to figure out that their staggering sales are a result of staggering prices and no-talent acts...and Apple's successful foray into downloadable music should show them that it is INDEED a price sensitive market...hopefully there will be a decided push to >non-pop< music there as well...and we'll see if they figure it out.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Agree and disagree
First, the agree part:
The Consolidation of radio stations in the hands of 3 or 4 pigopolists absolutely, positively must stop. Period! This has as much to do with the consolidation of power in soiled hands as it has to do with the utter destruction of the medium. But that doesn't matter; it sinmply has to be stopped.

Now the disagree part:
Top40 is, was, and has always been a scourge. However, it is not the root cause of the Destruction of the Medium. IMnsHO, the root cause is the Format.

And not the Format in and of itself, but the Format in the soiled hands of the control freaks and pigopolists who control the medium.

A bit of history before I leap headlong from my soapbox into the mosh pit of public opinion. In the early and middle 70s, I was a DJ at a couple of different stations in the Southwest (New Mexico, to be precise). At the pinochle1 of my career in that misguided business, I was at two separate times the Music Director of KRST, a (then) Album Rock station whose transmitter, sitting atop Sandia Crest (12,700 ft above sea level, approx. 5000-6000 ft above average terain), would easily cover a 5-state area (and occasionally Kansas).
KRST (pronounced "KReST", as in Sandia) underwent the same transmogrification as did all rock stations of the era, morphing from "free-form" to "formatted" to "Formatted" (spelling difference is important, as you will see).

In the Free-form era (pre 1973), we took in records, and records, and records. More of them that we could possibly listen to all at once. I would often take home several dozen a day to try to find those that would be worth airplay. My decisions were not final; they could be (and were) overridden by the rest of the air staff. Nonetheless, we had quite a bit of leeway as to what we could play. Free-form was actually a bit of a misnomer; there were rules about what we could play, and in what ratio. But all it took for an exemption was a quick, "Hey, is it OK to play XYZ during my shift?" The answer was generally "yes", unless XYZ had been played too much that week.

Steve Suplin (or "Santa Monica Fats", as he was known on the air) was my program director and mentor...until he got a better job in Denver (you move up, or you move out in this business...even then). When he came back, he brought with him the very first format for KRST. It was a variation of KBPI's groundbreaking format, one that KBPI claimed raised its listenership (and therefore, its card rates) by 15% in one year. The format reduced KRST's playlist from virtually unlimited (we estimated that there were some 25,000 available cuts from which to choose at any given time) to about 2500, all broken down into 28 neat categories (labeled A-Z, and 1 and 2; the numbers being "new" cuts of varying age). The DJs were required to play so many songs from each of the categories during a shift, with no back-to-back cuts from a given category, yadda-yadda-yadda. No matter that one particulay category had exactly 2 cuts in it (there were more than that available to the category, but KRST's library only had those two available), and that other categories were similarly bereft of possibilities.

What happened? Well, KRST's numbers did improve, with younger listeners. But a competitor sprung up: KMYR, whose slogan was; "Proud to be/Format free". They beat the snot out of us in the first year and a half. I left KRST to finish up my degree.

KRST's management response to KMYR was not to compete, but to clamp down. Formats got continually tighter, until about 2 years later (having finished my degree and looking for a job), I decided to try out at KRST again. Lo and behold, I got hired again. At this point, KRST's playlist was down to about 1000 songs, and the current management thought that was too much...they wanted the playlist shrunk to about 350 cuts! This was in late 1975. When the fall sweeps numbers were completed, KRST was showing its lowest numbers ever, KMYR was the top station in Albuquerque (and was this close to getting clearance from the FCC to put its transmitter onto Sandia crest, too). In a panic, management fired the curent program director (Suplin had long ago moved on again), but not the GM, whose "vision" was to contract the playlist; promoted me again to Music Director (ostensibly because I was the only one there from "the good old days" and I knew the library better than the people who had been working there for the last two years!), and was given the mandate to "make the station sound good again". I immediately expanded the playlist back to 2500 cuts (eventually getting it back up to 5000), and the new PD threw out much of the format. The result was, for the spring sweeps, an increase of 20% in our numbers!.

Why didn't it last? A couple of reasons: First, I couldn't keep my mouth shut, and eventually ran terminally afoul of the GM. It was this episode that taught me the first two axioms of broadcasting in the US:

1) When the inevitable conflict of personalities/egos/interests occurs in the broadcast industry, the person with the higher rank fires the person with the lower rank. This is not considered to be a bad thing; there is no disgrace in being fired from a broadcast outlet.

2) If it weren't so much fun, ain't nobody would work in that industry.

Second, since the GM was a control freak, he would do anything to assert control. The Format (big 'F') was the way to assert control on all aspects of the broadcast day. Hence it's popularity with the suits. Coupled with axiom 1) above, it assures that the suits will assert control over what was ostensibly an artistic outlet.

Back to the problem I had with the GM. The primary point of disagreement was the irrational, paranoid fear on the part of management that, if you play the "wrong" cut at the "wrong" time, you will lose your entire audience. Management absolutely believes that the entire audience waits with baited breath for the next "hit", and if you should challenge the listenership with something a little different (such as a Led Zep cut before 8:00a, or...Ghod forbid...Jazz) they will abandon your station for good and forever. How to keep this from occurring? Program all chance (and therefore, all choice) out of the playlist, be safe, be similar, and above all, be in control!

So, for both these reasons (ego and fear) the Format is all about control. Control is about Power, and Power is what drives the industry.

>whew<........Next question?

1 There's an old joke there, but I'll save that for later....
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Good info.
Can I post your response on my site?
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Post away!
Absolutely! I'd be interested in the response...

jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New OK, it's done.
Part II of Saving Radio is up:

[link|http://www.baptistdeathray.com/archives/00000019.html|http://www.baptistde...ves/00000019.html]

and it has most of your post in it. And as an added bonus, it also mentions Johnny Cash.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Kewl! Thanx....
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New What a startling echo of Murican Coup d'Etat Politicoscam!
New To add on...
...to a very good summary...the F-ormat at that time began to take on its own life...with consulting firms (the one I was familiar with was in Atlanta..can't remember the name...) telling you which songs appealed to which demographic...so you could go to the business owner and promise that his ad would come right after a classic song that appeals to 24-35 year old males...just what you want to hear if you are selling things to that demographic.

Playlists then became >generated< along these lines...using software...so the "major market" stations became >predictable in the extreme<. For example...I STILL remember that for the summer season DC-101 (main competitor to us) would play something from Styx at or around 3pm EVERY weekday. You could set your watch by some of them.

So, essentially, you had Washington (insert big city name here) programming being generated by some idiot in Atlanta with nothing but song survey results as a guide.

End result...nobody listened to anything except your "trademark" stuff.

I was at an AOR station in WV...and we got the fallout...ALOT of disenfranchised listeners from DC101 and DVE in Pittsburgh...it was definitely interesting. We were pulling huge numbers from a small WV town simply becasue you could call..ask to hear something...and it would happen...>and< we (especially me at night) were allowed to "play radio"...and pick cuts that were NOT getting killed by the other stations and play them.

That being said...it was still a "day part" environment...there was alot less freedom afforded the morning and evening drive guys...but then again...they didn't care....I did.

So when the choice came...move on to major market or find another career...I went back to school and found another career. There are days (still) where I regret that choice...because being a dj is >fun<.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New OK, but...
if the Format is the problem, and Top 40 is the Format... then isn't Top 40 the problem?

I mean, I suppose you can argue that Modern Rock doesn't reflect the overall Top 40, but that kind of programming certainly reflects the Top 40 of the specific genre of Modern Rock... right?

I haven't ever been a DJ, so I'm not as familiar with the subtle nuances like you guys are.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New if I understand it correctly
top 40 = format, not Format.

format = type of music played: rock, country, jazz, etc
Format = playlist run amok
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New You got it, Spice!
You can Format C&W, AOR, Top40 (which was the first, hence it being a convenient target for disdain...that, plus all Top40 music sucks), TechnoIndustrial, whatever.
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Does WXRT in Chicago still exist?
From my college days forward, they were the most radical station that I ever knew. In a 1/2 hour timeframe, they could go from Willie Nelson to the Pet Shop Boys to Led Zepplin to Natalie Merchant; in other words, true free form in a way that the listeners EXPECTED and ENJOYED. I can't begin to mention all of the musicians that I never would have heard had it not been for their getting played on WXRT. Biggest problem with them was that their signal didn't carry well into the far suburbs, with the station located on west Belmont (or Addison, I think).

Does anyone know if they're still as great as I remember?
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm|VB/SQL resume]
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm|Tandem resume]
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
New Yes, they still exist
I don't listen to 'em, however. Living in Naperville, I know that I can get their signal if I want, but I choose not to.
-YendorMike

[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
New Yeah, in a manner of speaking
They're still there, in name if not entirely in spirit.

They got bought by one of the pigopolists, and although the same people are still there (Terry Hemmert, Wendy Rice, Tom Marker, et al), they have been...er, "compromised". More commercials than music, tireless self-promotion, call letters before and after every cut...in short, the Format, only tailored (grudgingly, I'm sure) to the fact that if they were fully inCorporated, the owners would lose whats left of the gem in the proverbial five-and-dime store.

As it stands, I just can't stand to listen to them (except during Flashback, Saturdays 8a-12n), because every time...and I mean every TIME! I tune them in, they're playing a commercial. (Sets are no longer than 2 cuts each, and they have no more than 5 sets an hour. Do the math...!)
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New I think jb hit the nuance..
...with the format versus Format style.

What is being done now with >F<ormatting is a tight control exersize of the music played...so in the different >f<ormats...all are ending up as you say...the Top 40 of modern rock etc...

So maybe I missed your original play on Top 40...but in essence it has degenerated to a Top 40 rock, Top 40 adult contemporary, Top 40 hiphop...so I'll concede to that...but not in the historical [link|http://www.radioexpress.com/ewklyprog/eat40.html|Casey Kasem] sense. There was a time with the Billboard Top 40 was a radio >f<ormat...you played those songs...plus some older ones from the same list...tossed in a few throwbacks and repeat...old pop radio. What the F brought was that same mentality for all the little fs...but not in response to the existence of Top 40.

The problem really is the demand from the ratings and demographics folks and their "need" to establish a tighter control over those you "appeal" to. (to the detriment of those who appreciate music). Its not a "Top 40" mentality though...its a branding attempt (Magic", B-one o, Z98...yadda)...an attempt to burn your brand into the psyche of the listeners.

The problem is, cost of stations is now so inflated (thanks Clearchannel) that folks with vision and an alternative cannot afford to play anymore. Those with vision are few, far between and are all among the 20% of the remaining stations that weren't gobbled up in the past 15 years.

And it promises to get worse...as they are now removing the DJs from the equation...and automating the stations completely.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Ah, I see. I got my terminology wrong.
In my article, I was treating Top 40 as a >F<ormat -- because originally it had nothing to do with musical genres at all! When Top 40 was first introduced, the only thing that really mattered was what was selling the most, so you could get Sinatra and the Beatles on the same radio station. But the process was to play from a specific list, and time went into researching that list, etc... so I guess I considered the Top 40 genre altogether different from the Top 40 Format (or, I guess process works just as well) and I was focusing on the latter.

I think perhaps a followup article sorting all that stuff out would be helpful.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New And another thing...
The problem is, cost of stations is now so inflated (thanks Clearchannel) that folks with vision and an alternative cannot afford to play anymore. Those with vision are few, far between and are all among the 20% of the remaining stations that weren't gobbled up in the past 15 years.

There is another issue: source. Despite the payola scandals of the '70s, it still exists, but Reganified (sorry, BeeP, couldn't resist). It's now sanitized, made respectable (sorta), institutionalized, until now, what was once illegal is now expected. The only outfits that can pay the juice are the "Big 5" (Sony, Warner, EMI, Bartlesman, and whoever I forgot as the fifth bastard). What do they pay for? The artists for whom they have the biggest A&R budgets; that is, the megastars -- the proven producers whose names are automatically equated with sales, regardless of how badly their latest opus was mailed in.

So consider: You have most of the outlets in the hands of the few (or the one), and you have most of the source in the hands of the few, and they stroke each other outputing the S.O.S. over and over and overandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover....
you get the idea.

So where's the new stuff (you know...the stuff you want to listen to) coming from? And where are you gonna hear it?

I don't either!

Given this, does anyone really believe that the reason radio ratings continue to decline, and record sales continue to decline, is because of KaZaA?
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Decline due to file sharing
is almost certainly not the fact of the matter, but it sure makes a convenient scapegoat to get the decision makers involved in turning radio and the record industry into crap off the hook.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: And another thing...
So where's the new stuff (you know...the stuff you want to listen to) coming from? And where are you gonna hear it?


Well, for the most part, (although I could be wrong), you hear about new music coming out or albums being produced on TV or other media almost as much as radio, these days, especially the internet.

I am not one who looks for new music anymore, I stopped really liking "modern" music sometime in the late 80's and stick with my tried and true 70's rock for the most part now. But once upon a time, I used the radio to learn new songs for my mom's band, and was paid to transcribe lyrics for them, among other things. So I know the radio used to be one of the main sources of publicity for new bands and such.

Of course, that was before the advent of music videos and other media designed to showcase new music.

I don't either!


Given this, does anyone really believe that the reason radio ratings continue to decline, and record sales continue to decline, is because of KaZaA?


Well it isn't cause of me, cause I sure never use KaZaa, in fact, I don't have one single midi song or whatever those computer music bits are called, on my whole computer unless you count the start up and end of bits of an Elton John tune. ;)

Nightowl >8#


"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
New Surprize, Soo-prize SOOOO-PRIHZE!
Didn't know you were an expatriate of the airwaves.

e...with consulting firms (the one I was familiar with was in Atlanta..can't remember the name...) telling you which songs appealed to which demographic...


Hey! I know those guys! (And I can't remember their name, either...repression of Bad Things, I guess.) They were also the bastards who came up with the "enhanced" thing...changing the speeds of the turntables so the songs sounded "peppier". (Were you there for that abomination, too?)

jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Can I use this post as well?
It's very good, and seems a natural extension of jb4's.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Sure. (blush)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Cool.
I put it into Part III if a Part III is warranted, or edit it into Part II if it isn't.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Nevermind - ignore this post
*stupid user error. Ignore post.*
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
Expand Edited by cwbrenn May 28, 2003, 09:08:47 PM EDT
Expand Edited by cwbrenn May 28, 2003, 09:09:02 PM EDT
New Thanks for the history. WP story on Lee Abrams.
The Washington Post had a story in their Magazine on January 19 on XM radio and its programming guru - Lee Abrams. Abrams is the guy who gets the credit/blame for formaticizing FM. It's available [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A57791-2003Jan15|here] at WashTech.

It's a shame that XM seems to have had the life formatted out of it as well (based on my understanding of BP's comments).

Your writeup gives a great view of the tragedy that is FM radio. Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Agree and disagree
KEWL! Finally a topic I feel I can relate to!

First of all JB, I think it's neat that you were a DJ in New Mexico. My husband lived there a long time, and I can't wait to ask him about your stations. I know they talked about a transmitter on Sandia mountain when we were up there last time (two years back) and now I'm wondering if the station we were listening to then was the one you were at!

I'm also a former radio person, although I didn't really cut it as a DJ. I chose instead to be a Newscaster and clerical "traffic" person for the local college radio station where I attended, KCFV.

Top40 is, was, and has always been a scourge. However, it is not the root cause of the Destruction of the Medium. IMnsHO, the root cause is the Format.


I've got a question about Top 40, though. Is that even still around? I haven't heard that "term" in a really long time, so does the "Top 40" still exist? If so, what on earth would constitute a Top 40 format in the 90's?

I really only listen to about two radio stations, Khits, which is the St. Louis 70's rock station, (although they have started playing 80's and a few 90's for a mix), and 99.1 (You know, I don't even know it's call letters, silly me), the classical station that I leave on most of the time when other music isn't playing cause the parakeet is used to it. (I inherited him, see, and he always had the classic station on).

I know they've revamped St. Louis radio drastically, destroyed my husband's favorite station, "The Rock" among other things.

Why didn't it last? A couple of reasons: First, I couldn't keep my mouth shut, and eventually ran terminally afoul of the GM. It was this episode that taught me the first two axioms of broadcasting in the US:


1) When the inevitable conflict of personalities/egos/interests occurs in the broadcast industry, the person with the higher rank fires the person with the lower rank. This is not considered to be a bad thing; there is no disgrace in being fired from a broadcast outlet.


Yeah, that is one of the worst drawbacks of Radio, basically the more popular or higher ranked people win. I was fired from KCFV (although they would never admit it on paper, instead they stated... "it was time for a new work study position for me" because the DJ's weren't taking too well to having a female tell them what to do. I was in charge of all the logs and such, and I had to get people to fill them out properly... and let's just say college guys weren't real interested in doing that. ;) But they couldn't fire all the male DJs who were disgruntled, so they instead removed me.

Interestingly enough though, I have watched as popular DJs put their foot in their mouth repeatedly, such as Steve and DC, and even one of the people who moved up from KCFV to the traffic copter locally on a local station, well he apparently distressed someone of a minority at work and they lodged complaints, and now he's removed.

Radio is a very volatile, changing and hostile environment to work in, and I didn't cut it. But I'm still fascinated with how it functions.

Nightowl >8#
(The Newscaster at KCFV who got to announce the Challenger explosion and the fall of the Berlin Wall... two things I'll never forget as long as I live.)






"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
New Answers to your questions
I've got a question about Top 40, though. Is that even still around? I haven't heard that "term" in a really long time, so does the "Top 40" still exist? If so, what on earth would constitute a Top 40 format in the 90's?

Oh, its still around, all right. It's just got a different (sanatized, politicaly-and-corporately-correct) name. Find the station on your radio dial that plays back-to-back Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, Christine Agulera [sic], and every black "girl group" coming out these days. When you find it, you've found Top 40 for the New Millenium. (I am unfamiliar with the current St. Louis market, or I'd be able to give you a call sign. Although, didn't KSHE eminate from there? It was one of the greats back in the day...)

Around here (Chicago area), that would be WBBM-FM (aka B-96) or KISS (which is, paradoxically, not a call sign, but rather a Corporate trademark.)

Nightowl >8#
(The Newscaster at KCFV who got to announce the Challenger explosion and the fall of the Berlin Wall... two things I'll never forget as long as I live.)

How very cool (no that is not sarcasm, it is quite simply, very cool to be in that place at that time!)

BTW, where was KCFV?
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Re: Answers to your questions
Oh, its still around, all right. It's just got a different (sanatized, politicaly-and-corporately-correct) name. Find the station on your radio dial that plays back-to-back Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, Christine Agulera [sic], and every black "girl group" coming out these days. When you find it, you've found Top 40 for the New Millenium. (I am unfamiliar with the current St. Louis market, or I'd be able to give you a call sign. Although, didn't KSHE eminate from there? It was one of the greats back in the day...)


Hmmm I don't listen to Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, or any of those! I don't even know what they sing! Heheh!

KSHE was from here, and you are right, it was a GREAT radio station back in the day. Now it's still called KSHE, but owned by Emmis Corp., and still plays Rock, well sort of. ;)

How very cool (no that is not sarcasm, it is quite simply, very cool to be in that place at that time!)


BTW, where was KCFV?


Thanks, it was historical and very neat to be there during those moments, although the first was very sad.

KCFV still exists, it was/is a New Wave radio station based at St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley. In the time I worked there it was called "New Rock Radio" and played those things mentioned by someone earlier, like REM, Billy Idol, and Depeche Mode, to name a few.

Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
New KCFV Update
I don't know if you've tuned in KCFV recently, but I thought you might be interested in knowing that it's no longer "the wave of the future", and has opted to be "North County's New Sound". We're almost strictly Top 40 (CHR-Rhythmic), though right now there's a bit of a mutiny happening over the music, might go varietal. I'm the Asst. News Dir. there currently. Hope you're interested.

Lou
New Wow! Hello Lou!
I don't know if you've tuned in KCFV recently, but I thought you might be interested in knowing that it's no longer "the wave of the future", and has opted to be "North County's New Sound". We're almost strictly Top 40 (CHR-Rhythmic), though right now there's a bit of a mutiny happening over the music, might go varietal. I'm the Asst. News Dir. there currently. Hope you're interested.


I was just posting to Dianna the other day on the KCFV website (Yahoo group). She told us about you coming to the station!

How did you find IWT, or have you always been here?

I don't listen to radio too much these days but occasionally we turn KCFV on for fun in the car. Mostly I run classical music on 99.1 for my parakeet... he grew up with quiet classical music and I inherited him, but I'm slowly teaching him to appreciate rock. ;)

I'll have to check it out, for sure sometime soon though! Thanks!

And welcome to IWT!

Brenda



"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
New Don't Mess With that
poor bird's edjakated Ear, y'hear?

""Classic"" Rock is to classical Music
..as..
{military justice is to justice.}

The bird's got cuth.
You get some.. by osmosis, for respecting that.
S/He Knows >the difference<.





Want a piece outta yer finger, next?





Saving Birds' Psyches, LLC
Div. of Crush All the Transistorized-Guitars Ltd.
.. for just plain Goodness' sake.
New Hehe, yep, I agree!
He's a he parakeet, named Sylvester, and he prefers violins, string orchestras, etc. He really loves Strauss and Vivaldi, they are two of his favorites.

He stands K-hits (my local 70's station) when the classical station is doing Opera, (he can't stand opera and Wagner makes him think something is coming to eat him!), but whenever Rod Stewart sings, he gets hyper and squawks and flies in dive bombing motions if we don't switch the station. He does that with Bonnie Rait, and a few other gravelly voiced singers too, and anything that he thinks is coming to eat him, like really weird synthesizer stuff. There's one song in particular he hates and tells us about, but I don't know the name, but it starts with this really weird instrumental, and then the rest of the song is all instrumental, but the first part sounds like something coming to get you.

He's some bird, allright!

Brenda



"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
New Song that Sylvy hates (new thread)
Created as new thread #261791 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=261791|Song that Sylvy hates]



"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
New High School Oooh Oooh
There was a novelty record done in the 50's called High School Ooh Ooh - it featured the original Maytag repair man guy (pre Gordon Jump) as an unscrupulous record producer out to manipulate radio to make hits. The piece gets its title from the song he's trying to push (which was made by grabbing a kid off the street to be the teen idol, putting him in front of a microphone, telling him to just say what he was doing that day and poking him with a sharp stick to get him to scream into the microphone ie "I was on my way to high school (poke) ooooh! (poke) ooooh!...) while a studio group plays vanilla doo-wop behind it.

The bit was a commentary on payola, big record company arrogance, and an affirmation of the power of the uncompromising principles of DJ's. It was also, oddly, anti rock n roll and pro jazz.

I heard it on the radio years ago and have never been able to track it down since. But I think its still relevant. Want better radio? Kill the program director and hire talented and principled DJ's with eclectic taste. Already the demographics are beginning to look simplistic and in Denver I've found a local station that is beginning to mix up their play list with unprecedented variety (I have no idea if this is part of the machine wising up or an actual rebel station).

BTW, if anybody manages to track down a copy of high school ooh ooh I'd like to know where.



"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes.
Contestants in a suicidal race."
    - Synchronicity II - The Police
New Some Links
Stan Freberg a.k.a. Clyde Ankle

Amazon [link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000AF8G/103-2798755-6835829?vi=glance"|The Very Best of Stan Freberg]

Article [link|http://www.tsimon.com/freberg.htm|Stan Freberg]

And [link|http://www.oldiesloon.com/ca/kf040260.htm|KFWB Fabulous Forty Survey for week ending April 2, 1960]
When they took the Fourth Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the Fifth Amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the Second Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the First Amendment, and I can't say anything about it.
New I am in awe
I googled for this info for something like an half an hour.




"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
New Sometimes I get lucky
with getting the right google "string".

Not gonna comment on the other meaning. ;-b
When they took the Fourth Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the Fifth Amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the Second Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the First Amendment, and I can't say anything about it.
New Interesting article...
...found this

[link|http://www.radiodiversity.com/whokilledradio.html|http://www.radiodive...okilledradio.html]

For anyone who loves music, most commercial radio frustrates because it's programmed for everyone's benefit -- advertisers, record companies, the most casual listeners -- but their own. REV 105, by defining modern rock in a broad but informed way, and by avoiding the mindnumbing repetition that drives dedicated music fans crazy, violated two tenets of the ratings-obsessed radio programmer: Keep your playlist tight, and pound the hits till your most fickle listeners are familiar with them. Despite a weak broadcast signal, such renegade behavior earned REV 105 respectable ratings -- at one time a 5.4 market share of 18-to-34 year-old listeners -- and a loyal, grateful following in a town steeped in a musical risk-taking tradition.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Depressing quote from that
Philips sounds like the stodgiest Top 40 programmer when he talks about why a typical Prodigy song doesn't work well on 99X: "What are you supposed to do to it? There's nothing to sing along to; there's no lyric per se. There's no traditional melody or harmony. It's a little bit... abstract to work as a traditional radio song."
Talk about lack of respect for your listeners. If you can't sing along you don't want to hear it?
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Don't you remember singing along to . . .
Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Rachminoff, etc.?

They all had such catchy lyrics...
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
New Wagner
"kill the wabbit"
"kill the wabbit"
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New Ha!
New **giggle**
Yes...my favorite piece of opera...
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Re: Don't you remember singing along to . . .
Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Rachminoff, etc.?


They all had such catchy lyrics...


Hehehehe, actually, I sing all the time to classical music. I make up lyrics and sing to my birdie ;)

Nightowl >8#

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
New "Too long, too down, no play!"
This is the mating call of my second PD; it is the "excuse" he used not to play a cut.

Sound familiar?
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Shine on you crazy diamonds?
New luckily there is Internet radio
where the small are (almost) as available as the big

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Not if the Copyright orifice has its way...
...and caves intot he RIAA and changes Internetcasters ransomfees to play songs.
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New They are charging
or at least online providers (we go through live365.com) are collecting

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Saint Louis Radio changes too fast
we always go through format changes on the FM radio stations with few exceptions every year or two. It is like they cannot make up their mind what format to play. A station that used to play 80's music may now play Rap or Jazz music. I think the same owners own most of the St. Louis Radio stations and then shuffle the formats to try and reach new markets.

I only listen to radio stations in my car, when I am not playing a CD or having the radio off.


"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard
New Side note on <F>ormat
Could that be what happened with talk radio? [link|http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0305/S00192.htm|This] guy thinks so.
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where's Osama? Where's the WMD? Where's the Anthrax killer? Where's the report of the investigation on 9/11?
New Ooh, more polarization
We've already seen that radio conglomerates with virtual monoplies will offer the same playlist on each of their seven music stations in a market. Now we've got someone suggesting that once the regulations go away, then we will get some real diversity in talk programming? Hard to believe, except that maybe by "diversity" they mean "which of the two". Just like politics. No middle ground, no reasoned discussion or debate, just pick which ideology you'd like to have reinforced.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New well, perhaps at least
it will give the left a chance to polish their rhetorical zingers. I mean, it *would* be nice to hear republican politicians being harangued on the air, for a change.

Still, it'd be nice to be able to hear more than two viewpoints on a topic.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Revenge of the Dittoheads!
"And what was parting on the Left
Is now parting on the Right..."
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New errata
I had to edit the original article.

My claim that 80% of the radio stations were owned by one company (Clear Channel) was wrong. I was misreading a statistic about something entirely unreleated to radio. (It just so happens that Clear Channel and two other companies own 80% of the billboard market. I saw billboard (the banner ads of the highway) and thought Billboard (the top 40 list) and subsequently overlooked the two other companies. I am a very bad Death Ray.)

At any rate, the *actual* figure is that Clear Channel owns about 60% of the *rock* radio market. Which is still a staggering figure, but not quite as staggering as the other one. At any rate, I've updated the article to reflect this.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
Expand Edited by cwbrenn May 29, 2003, 04:25:28 PM EDT
New Clearchannel is the enemy.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Seconded
Along with the other two pigopolists (Cumulus, Viacom) that together control about 80% of the radio outlets (soon to be >95%, thanks, George).

jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Radio is dead
Has been for some time. About the only thing I listen to is our 2 Public radio stations - and you really do need two public stations - one to carry the national news and entertainment stuff (NPR, Prarie Home, What Do You Know, etc...) and one that concentrates on a local flavor.

[link|http://www.knon.org|KNON] is our local PR channel, and it's the only station that I find offers any pleasant listening surprises. The format changes every hour or two, offering a wide variety of views and music - I'm partial to Texas Blues, Cajun/Zydeco, Dead Heads, and every once in a blue moon the Polka stuff. (I could do without John Wiley Price - but that's a different story).

[edit note: fixed link]
Expand Edited by ChrisR May 29, 2003, 05:50:43 PM EDT
New Nothing to see. Move along....
Expand Edited by Another Scott May 29, 2003, 06:02:13 PM EDT
New You need something like TripleJ
[link|http://abc.net.au/triplej|TripleJ] - the nationwide radio for Australias yoof. Nowhere near as musically diverse as it used to be, (I guess it now roughly equates to whatever 'Alternative' is these days), but still it's mercifully free of Britney Timberlake, Backstreet II Men, and Whitney Dion.

It's government-funded and so not completely beholden to whatever the record companies are hoping to push that week. They were even playing MP3s of the new Radiohead album a few weeks ago til they got into trouble...

Oh and they do play Prodigy. Who says you can't sing along to Voodoo People, or even Serial Thrilla?
John. Busy lad.
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #104084 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=104084|ICLRPD]
New And I am now pleased to report
that a synthesized version of both articles has been posted on Kuro5hin. A harrowing experience, but it'll be interesting to see the response.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New K5 link?
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Here ya go:
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/29/11911/9588|http://www.kuro5hin....3/5/29/11911/9588]

It was a harrowing experience. :) I hadn't posted an article there for three years, and in the process of using my best-remembered good behavior I managed to immediately piss off some very vocal K5ers in the edit queue...

What was considered polite behavior in the past is not always considered polite today... Oh well. I learned.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
     Saving Radio - (cwbrenn) - (66)
         Since WHEN, did joo become such an - (folkert) - (1)
             Who, me? - (cwbrenn)
         Disagree - (bepatient)
         Agree and disagree - (jb4) - (35)
             Good info. - (cwbrenn) - (3)
                 Post away! - (jb4) - (2)
                     OK, it's done. - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                         Kewl! Thanx.... -NT - (jb4)
             What a startling echo of Murican Coup d'Etat Politicoscam! -NT - (Ashton)
             To add on... - (bepatient) - (16)
                 OK, but... - (cwbrenn) - (10)
                     if I understand it correctly - (SpiceWare) - (4)
                         You got it, Spice! - (jb4) - (3)
                             Does WXRT in Chicago still exist? - (lincoln) - (2)
                                 Yes, they still exist - (Yendor)
                                 Yeah, in a manner of speaking - (jb4)
                     I think jb hit the nuance.. - (bepatient) - (4)
                         Ah, I see. I got my terminology wrong. - (cwbrenn)
                         And another thing... - (jb4) - (2)
                             Decline due to file sharing - (jake123)
                             Re: And another thing... - (Nightowl)
                 Surprize, Soo-prize SOOOO-PRIHZE! - (jb4)
                 Can I use this post as well? - (cwbrenn) - (2)
                     Sure. (blush) -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                         Cool. - (cwbrenn)
                 Nevermind - ignore this post - (cwbrenn)
             Thanks for the history. WP story on Lee Abrams. - (Another Scott)
             Re: Agree and disagree - (Nightowl) - (7)
                 Answers to your questions - (jb4) - (6)
                     Re: Answers to your questions - (Nightowl) - (5)
                         KCFV Update - (Lou) - (4)
                             Wow! Hello Lou! - (Nightowl) - (3)
                                 Don't Mess With that - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     Hehe, yep, I agree! - (Nightowl) - (1)
                                         Song that Sylvy hates (new thread) - (Nightowl)
             High School Oooh Oooh - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                 Some Links - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                     I am in awe - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                         Sometimes I get lucky - (jbrabeck)
         Interesting article... - (bepatient) - (8)
             Depressing quote from that - (drewk) - (7)
                 Don't you remember singing along to . . . - (jbrabeck) - (4)
                     Wagner - (SpiceWare) - (2)
                         Ha! -NT - (Another Scott)
                         **giggle** - (jb4)
                     Re: Don't you remember singing along to . . . - (Nightowl)
                 "Too long, too down, no play!" - (jb4) - (1)
                     Shine on you crazy diamonds? -NT - (inthane-chan)
         luckily there is Internet radio - (andread) - (2)
             Not if the Copyright orifice has its way... - (jb4) - (1)
                 They are charging - (andread)
         Saint Louis Radio changes too fast - (orion)
         Side note on <F>ormat - (Silverlock) - (3)
             Ooh, more polarization - (drewk) - (2)
                 well, perhaps at least - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                     Revenge of the Dittoheads! - (jb4)
         errata - (cwbrenn) - (2)
             Clearchannel is the enemy. -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                 Seconded - (jb4)
         Radio is dead - (ChrisR) - (3)
             Nothing to see. Move along.... -NT - (Another Scott)
             You need something like TripleJ - (Meerkat) - (1)
                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (Another Scott)
         And I am now pleased to report - (cwbrenn) - (2)
             K5 link? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                 Here ya go: - (cwbrenn)

This is a lerpadism.
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