9/11 is completely irrelevant

Post #96,774 by tuberculosis 4/16/03 12:50:15 AM Reply	9/11 is completely irrelevant "maybe you might still be in denial about how America has changed since 9/11."{ Terrorists didn't change America - a bunch of power hungry opportunists did and I'm fscking sick of hearing about it. 9/11 was a tragedy. I'm sad it happened. But to put it into perspective, 9/11's death toll is roughly 3 weeks of highway fatalities. Thats it. General Motors kills more people every year than OBL ever did. Its sad but that's life (and death). Please stop making 9/11 the excuse for every fucked up thing going on from the price of oil to my dot com folding. Its just bullshit and nothing about 9/11 justifies the current goings on in our country/government. "Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes. Contestants in a suicidal race." - Synchronicity II - The Police
Post #96,776 by inthane-chan 4/16/03 1:14:57 AM Reply	In 100% agreement. Read my .sig. After 9/11, Bush made two statements: 1. "Terrorists hate America because America is a land of freedom and opportunity." 2. "We intend to attack the root causes of terrorism." Sounds like everything is going according to plan.
Post #96,777 by bepatient 4/16/03 1:18:53 AM Reply	I kindof have to disagree a bit. 9/11 made a good portion of America feel >unsafe<. It, unfortunately, took the hayseed from their hair and forced them to realize that we are part of the >world<...and the world is not cast in the form of "Main Street USA". And the part that many don't seem to understand...politicians overall will respond to their constituents. Right now >NOBODY< will get voted from office for the security measures being taken by the government. Why? "We the people" (in the Constitutional sense) SUPPORT them...by a large margin. They supported the removal of Hussein. They support the airport security measures. They support expanded police authority for investigations, they support governmental sharing of data...all of it. And, when the random crashing of SUVs showed a pattern...it did get governmental and public awareness...and the Firestone lawsuit and hearings dealt with far fewer deaths than 9/11. This country >has< changed since 9/11. And 2 years in...we can see the over-reaction in certain areas. I agree with you that not >everything< should be blamed on 9/11...but the current government is responding largely to those concerns...to the current detriment of the economy and local affairs. It will cost them the election (if the Dems can field a candidate...that is) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #96,790 by ben_tilly 4/16/03 7:02:37 AM Reply	Unsafe, but not personally so You will note that in NYC polls consistently run against Bush's war. Why? My guess is that it is a lot harder to be so rah rah when you are also personally aware that you live in a big bullseye. It is also possible that living here you see more clearly the hypocrisy implicit in people with their own agendas taking advantage of this crisis to hijack national politics while simultaneously ignoring the needs of the place where it happened. (NYC is looking at massive cutbacks in firefighters and police.) Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #96,820 by inthane-chan 4/16/03 11:06:32 AM Reply	Bullpucky. Beep, the PNAC was running the agenda BEFORE fucking 9/11 - they just shamelessly manipulated public opinion like a bunch of ghoulish ambulance chasers afterwards. Quite frankly, I'm tired of seeing you sit back and claiming that there's no hidden agenda, no real dissapearance of civil rights, that stupid claim that "trickle-down economics" actually works, etc, etc - if the fucking GESTAPO came by and packed away half of IWETHEY tomorrow, the feeling I get from you is that you'd be sitting with your thumb up your ass, preaching "the market will correct, the market will correct..." Guess what: The market doesn't correct unless somebody FUCKING DOES SOMETHING TO CORRECT IT. WE* ARE THE FUCKING MARKET. Every day you just sit back and call this a blip instead of adding your voice to the choir saying "enough is enough" is one more day of bigoted close-minded assholes like Marlowe running everything. * In the sense that all humanity makes up the market. After 9/11, Bush made two statements: 1. "Terrorists hate America because America is a land of freedom and opportunity." 2. "We intend to attack the root causes of terrorism." Sounds like everything is going according to plan.
Post #96,824 by bepatient 4/16/03 11:22:10 AM Reply	You know what... ...keep reading Ashton...instead of paying attention to me..and continue to misrepresent my opinion. It seems to be what your best at. Or...when you calm the fuck down...come back and we'll chat. K? Otherwise...piss off for now. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #96,898 by Ashton 4/16/03 6:53:57 PM Reply	Moi??__{Omigawd} I think he just said... Read Me in My Posts [!!] ..don't listen to these calumniators and see my proves! \ufffd 199x the Legendary.. M&M Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. I dunno, BeeP - but I don't see how my deconstructions of your stolid hoary edifices can alter What, ~ You Always Do\ufffd: reductio ad it'salljustrunninglikeClockwork! (But then, I'm biased - I'd settle for 'Leaders' whom I disagree with.. merely selected by an Honest Process, but who speak English and aren't motivated by theological Megalomania - over ones I'd agree with in aims, but whose MO is The Big Lie [too..]) Your bias is of course.. different. Wonder what it really is ? Since most of yer stuff is simply a plea for thisisthebestofallpossibleworlds, you sap. Read me in my posts! you calumniators
Post #96,906 by bepatient 4/16/03 7:41:47 PM Reply	"the market will correct, the market will correct..." [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/search/?field_searchUser=-1&field_searchSubject=&field_searchContent=%22the+market+will+correct%22&field_searchSignature=&field_searchForum=-1&field_boardid=1&submit_ok%3Amethod=Search\|Those are >your< words.] I have never typed those words in these forums. So forgive me for getting tired of having your bullshit attributed to me. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #96,947 by Ashton 4/17/03 5:03:41 AM Reply	Damn.. I thought it was inscribed over arches at Econ U__:( along with, Caveat Emptor and The Sheep Shall Be Sheared (Kinda like at our student house, Stet Fortvna Domus :-)
Post #96,795 by drewk 4/16/03 8:13:44 AM Reply	Can I get that on a T-shirt? Please stop making 9/11 the excuse for every fucked up thing going on from the price of oil to my dot com folding. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #96,803 by Another Scott 4/16/03 9:46:42 AM Reply	Hmmm. Let's see how this works. "12/7 was a tragedy. I'm sad it happened. But to put it into perspective, 12/7's [link\|http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth1_1200.htm\|death toll] was a few weeks of highway fatalities. That's it. General Motors kills more people every year than [link\|http://www.nps.gov/usar/ExtendWeb1.html\|Yamomoto did on 12/7]. Its sad but that's life (and death)." Lots of people see 9/11/01 and 12/7/41 as similar events. Lots of people can and do say that 9/11 wasn't that big a deal. It didn't threaten our way of life. But one can make a similar argument that an attack on some ships at a small island in the middle of the Pacific wasn't that big a deal either. I don't think it's a good argument myself. 9/11 did tens of billions of dollars of damage to the US economy in the span of 2 hours or so. It'll take years for the US to recover from that damage. It's a much bigger impact than the tragedy of car accidents. IMHO. YMMV. Cheers, Scott.
Post #96,842 by Simon_Jester 4/16/03 12:53:15 PM Reply	Hmm...have to disagree on that. 1941 and 2001 are similar. Both represented attacks that got us into wars. No argument there. (Strickly speaking, 1941's attacks on ships weren't a big deal, Japan had done it before, so nothing, except the war, had changed. -- Likewise, 2001 wasn't a big deal, the WTC had been bombed before, so except for the "War on Terrorism", nothing had changed.) However, in 1941, the attacks caused a general lessening of civil rights and justice problems, most notably the internment of Japanese Americans. 2001 the attacks are causing a general lessening of civil rights and justice problems. (An interesting justification - do we not learn from our mistakes?) However, unlike 1941 where we declared war on Japan (Germany declared war on us, iirc), we're now attacking countries that weren't associated with the attacks.
Post #96,844 by tuberculosis 4/16/03 1:00:57 PM Reply	Not equivalent acts "Lots of people see 9/11/01 and 12/7/41 as similar events." In a lot of ways they are. In a lot more ways they aren't. Yamamoto represented a government and commanded a huge military machine capable of repeating his attacks until defeated. The 9/11 terrorists had some razor knives and succeeded based on the complacent mindset of the passengers. There is no way that 9/11 could succeed today. The people are more vigilant and will now take action to protect themselves. Do you honestly think that some set of wackos with box cutters could pull off a 9/11 today with the current US awareness? No fucking way. Because people are mad as hell and unwilling to put up with that shit anymore. I'd beat the fucker to a bloody pulp myself just because I'm sick of bending over and coughing everytime I get on an airplane. And 9/11 didn't trash the economy. It just gave it a bump. It should be gone by now. Why is the economy still trashed? Is it 9/11? Or is it paralysis caused by uncertainty fostered by a regime intent on unsound economic policies and an unrelated military agenda? I think its the second and I'm mad as hell because I've gone from a 6 figure income to unemployable (and as Petroleum Engineering grad - I've been here before). We have lost 2 MILLION PERMANENT JOBS in the US economy - something that's never happened before and its got nothing to do with a small cadre of X-acto wielding psychopaths. Read my lips - 9/11's sole connection to the Iraq war is the creation of fear and confusion in the american populace thats been exploited by the current US regime to push through their own economic/miltary agenda. "Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes. Contestants in a suicidal race." - Synchronicity II - The Police
Post #96,891 by Ashton 4/16/03 6:29:38 PM Reply	What. He. Said.
Post #96,892 by rcareaga 4/16/03 6:32:31 PM Reply	Me. Too. Plus. ICLRPD. I'd beat the fucker to a bloody pulp myself just because I'm sick of bending over and coughing everytime I get on an airplane. "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Post #97,333 by mmoffitt 4/18/03 5:59:19 PM Reply	Ibid. Well put. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"

Welcome to IWETHEY!