Sincere apology as well...

Post #95,837 by screamer 4/10/03 3:59:37 PM Reply	Sincere apology as well... You write: "And, finally, the issue you've decided to respond to is one of the smallest parts of my post. Hell, it's not even the point. It's background. And yet, strangely enough, it seems to have the longest sub-thread of the lot. Bait, switch, match." Although I do not think it was "one of the smallest parts of (your) post" (obviously), you have valid concerns such as what precedence this could possibly set for future wars. Upon rereading, I did gloss over some of your better points. I apologize. I have not concerned myself with this question so much insofar as all wars start pretty much this way... "i.e. we really think we should, and we have good reasons" and leave it at that". Very few nations ask UN permission to go to war. What was unprecedented, IMHO, was how much discussion occurred before we went into Iraq. When, in your original post, you state: "That doesn't shake my belief that the US is forming the beginnings of a foreign policy stance that should not be taken. And I've never believed the ends justify the means." I do not share the premise that "we are forming the beginnings of a foreign policy stance that should not be taken." Because of this, I do not share your fears. I believe that in the context of 9/11 and as outlined by Bush's State of the Union speech, that the foreign policy stance we are taking is necessary for the reasons he outlined. I therefor do not have the dichotomy of emotions you have. AND I do not believe the "ends justifies the means" every time, but I believe it does sometimes...YMMV. I truly am hopeful for Iraq's people. As the world keeps populating, we are going to have to find ways to live and work together as individuals and nations. The US is in a unique position (other than being the sole remaining superpower) in that much of our strength truly is from our diversity. We have found ways to live and work together already, people of differing ethnic, religious, racial backgrounds (although it ain't always painless or pretty). For most nations of the world, this is only an intellectual excercise as their populations are homogenous. My point being - this gives me hope. And because this is a democracy, WTFpeople can change our direction every November, if we get "inspired". Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #95,884 by cwbrenn 4/10/03 5:32:43 PM Reply	I appreciate that I can get rather cynical in these kinds of discussions, because all too often I find people putting words in my mouth, or focusing on a lesser issue that they can attack more throughly instead of my main point. I confess I was starting to get my dander up, because I thought it was going that way again. Your observation that the part of my post that you originally responded to was not as small as I make it out to be is a fair one -- to me it is, because it was "buildup" to what I was really going on about, but I did spend a fair amount of time on it -- but I also appreciate your taking the time to respond to my other point. I can understand why you wouldn't share my premise, and thus my concern... but your stance requires a certain amount of confidence in the responsibility of people who wield power that I don't have. Not because I necessarily think they are "evil" people, but because immense power is very easy to wield badly. The US is staggeringly powerful. Therefore (in my opinion) the power it can bring to bear must be made very difficult to actually use. The way things are going, the power to wage war is being made easier and that makes me uneasy. Uneasy is too mild a word, I suppose. "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #95,939 by Ashton 4/10/03 11:08:14 PM Reply	There's further and ominous indication of the agenda of this unelected cabal, now in power: Some months ago reported: the intention to make "smaller, more compact battlefield nukes". Period. No prior debate, discussion - rationale OR even rationalization. Nada. Just another 'announcement'. Commissioning new nukes of this description is the obv. First Step in attempting a major propaganda coup regarding the entire world's attitude towards all such weapons: that they be used only as last resort, as in averting an attack by another upon one's country. This is G\ufffdbbelsian-scale mind fuck IMhO: it is no less than the subtle addition of such munitions to the category of "ordinary weapons" / nothing to see here: Move On. Slipped in as stealthily as the anti-Constitutional PATRIOT abomination. Combine this factoid with the Project for the New American Century material (linked in several posts here) - whose authors ARE the current US CABINET! and I see considerable cause for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the perilous course these obsessed ones have evidently embarked (Us All) upon. We shall see.. if we get a chance! even - to "vote them out" before irreversible mischief is in full delicto flagrante. How soon -?- will the next member of The Massively-flexible Axis of Evil be summarily attacked 'for our comfort and security'. Ashton

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