288. ARGUMENT FROM BRAINWASHING

1) Atheists claim that Christians have been brainwashed by churches, priests and religious environment.
2) Yeah, well, you have been brainwashed by secular colleges and universities! Your brainwashing keeps you from the Truth!
3) Therefore, God exists.

289. ARGUMENT FROM COMMUNISM

1) All communists are atheists.
2) All communists are bad.
3) Therefore they are wrong.
4) The moral majority is are theists and non-communists.
5) Therefore they are good.
6) Therefore they are right.
7) This argument does so make sense!
8) Therefore, God exists.

290. ARGUMENT FROM WHATEVER I DO

1) Sometimes I do good things, and sometimes I do bad things.
2) When I do good things, this proves that God is helping me to be good.
3) When I do bad things, this proves that the devil has tempted me to do evil, and I need God's help to overcome temptation.
4) So whatever I do, it proves that God exists.
5) Therefore, God exists

Arguing about the metaphysical is like a bicycle without a fish
:-\ufffd

- such 'My Personal God-Personality' models as you suggested.

Without (intelligent use of) the concept of 'scale' - all attempts to try and map the terrain of the [Unknown] turns into a circle-jerk of recursive er redundancy. (I assert)

Which was why the language Sanskrit was invented: solely for the purpose of evading - to the extent possible - the inherent problem that all words used in common language have: their referents are of ordinary material kind. Nobody makes stand-up comedy in Sanskrit: surely the litmus test of any conversational language extant :-\ufffd

Note how psych (for just one example of a topic which has few 'measurable physical' aspects) postulates 'cases of dis-ease'.. which largely depend upon some consensus of what "normal behaviour" IS? Might Be? (did anyone Check? How well? How often? With what yardstick? yada)

(Oh, then note how much of the world's art, music, science and invention - has been the result of work by misfits.) Love. It.

And psych is hardly 'metaphysical' in scope.. though it can be also looked at "with scale" -- which is what astrology and other arts [once practiced competently.. we are told] attempted to accomplish. Some people long ago were as careful about the problems of Language as any.. since. Will S. is the obv. example, but many others qualify.

Lately 'we' all have become sloppier and sloppier - due directly IMhO to the rise, even glorification of the shallow; the advent of marketing and infotainment for the LCD of humanity -- as ersatz evasions of the difficulties of intense study [of Anything]. Hell.. that is real Work!

ie Language has limits, however carefully one means to employ it. Most 'discussions' (even here? :-0 ) are conducted rather sloppily as regards word-referents and, in the West [sorry but.. it's true] the concept of scale is rarely encountered, or if it is: rarely employed with the care required. It is a matter needing study, unless one is a prodigy / or born fully aware (?)

Which IMhO - is why anything posted in THIS forum is so apt to descend into "logical proofs of / against 'God'" [Hah..] or, occasionally - may employ an adult emotional center and deliver the lesser: pretty good psych eval.
Besides, anybody 'God-conscious' - would be the last to mention it, let alone 'claim' it. {Cosmic cackle heard?} Doncha just love self-cancelling tacks?

We may now return to our regularly scheduled Ontological Wff n'Proof game.


Ashton



Wff n'Proof - a great sorta-'card' game for teaching basic logic; I know some kids whose sociology Prof father hooked them on it. Insufferable little brats at times - but Logical insufferablelittlebrats. (You think smarmy is bad!)

the being - well, it's all 'explained' in

sat chit ananda



;-)
Ashton

Heh..

Issue with this part of your link -

Although Indra, the god of war and weather, is the most frequently mentioned, there appears to be no hierarchy.

Jos. Campbell quotes a nice little parable about Indra (who is a sorta demi-God; there is no 'attribution' possible re the [Absolute] of course; that which many imagine having internal folksy conversations with..) The short-form, then:

Campbell describes a building program which Indra presented to the (call him the Superintendent) 'up there' .. one which demanded fabulous buildings of immense specification .. .. this went on, again for some 'time' [in a timeless 'space' - we see the problem here] and his wife and others -not to mention the Superintendent- grew weary. Still, Indra's will was, well.. Indra's Will.

One day, amidst all this activity - Indra was informed of the presence 'just outside' of a mysterious Blue Boy (!) Indra directed that he be brought into the [hall?] Will skip the parable-like verbal exchanges, meant to illumine the listener.

At one point the Blue Boy, in answer to a question.. something about hubris IIRC, causes? reveals? a looong line of ants crossing the floor in a perfect line.

Indra: "What are those?"
Blue Boy [Krishna]: "Former-Indras All.."

I guess this suggests where Indra might reside in the pantheon; but of course - every bit of everything on the topic is perforce allegory and unsuitable for literal translation to the logical positivist.

(Personally I kinda like the elephant-headed God, Ganesha)

You'll find sat chit ananda pretty much everywhere in The Gita, Upanishads etc. (any stories whose referent words are the Sanskrit words). ~ Being Knowledge Bliss, in Engrish. Though the connectives? interrelationships just don't lend themselves to nice neat dictionary definitions. All I could possibly say is: these are Huge words, and applicable to any meta-p matters - from whatever Grasshopper angles of view. And we're all Grasshoppers here. Sometimes even Indra, too. (who decided to go back to his begging bowl and the singing of bajans, shortly after above events. Huge {sighs} of relief all around.)


{cackle}

dunno - will add title for my next raid on local paperback xchange (the *&$%^ s are alluz outta Pratchett. I think the owners Keep Them All. Ratz). Have read some Zelazny.. odd names have stayed with me since ~birth - but Book Titles seem to just evanesce.

Hindu sendup eh? Sounds like fun, but.. it's pretty hard to beat the UnReal Thing there; I mean.. who'da thunk up Ganesha! (a pretty helpful sorta God-(guy?)) I thought Jos Campbell's series - with many pics of various drawings, statues was just superb; could see Moyers sorta blinking.. at moments. I mean.. some o' them critter's'd warm the icy heart of an OT kinda reprobate (or Spanish Inquisition field scout? .. Si Se\ufffdor.. \ufffdmuy interesante!) Itsallinyourmind

Stay away from any smoky-red lights too, y'hear !?


Ashton