The points you make are very valid ones

Post #95,501 by dmarker 4/9/03 6:42:38 PM Reply	The points you make are very valid ones One challenge that stands in the way is how the post war victory will be handled and how it will be 'seen to be handled' by the people that count. Some initial bad scenes were of the looting and seeing very angry people (esp in Basra) asking the British why they weren't stopping the 'Ali Babas' from stealing the stores of food. British response was that they were not their as police. To their credit they were trying to excert some control. This image needs to be fixed, either bring in military police & rapidly recruit a temp police force from former soldiers (not the black pyjama mob). One appaling fsck-up was when the US soldier placed a US flag over Saddam statue's face- to their credit an officer quickly ordered the idiot to remove it but not before a major Arab news broadcaster had filmed it and loudly pronounced - Iraq is entering a new era. Everything that happens there now will have an American smell'. I guess we can teach troops to fight & fight well but it is asking too much to teach them diplomacy. The point this is leading to is the issue of if the Arabs see this Iraq victory as a defeat for all Arabs. If so then Mubarak's remark about this year being the year of 100 Osama Bin Laden's will come true. Again, there may be a chance for the allies & UN (if there is a role), to move quickly to implement a workable democracy. Iraq was one of the most progressive Arab nations in terms of advanced social ideas, equality for women, & no religious interference in government - even with Saddam & his clan of thugs. And yes, Iraq still offers the best chance of establishing a meaningful Arab democracy. The challenges are to be able to fulfill the aspirations of the Shia in the south (who would willingly join with Iran), to satisfy the aspirations of the Kurds (without scaring Turkey), and to allow the Iraqis proper to believe their destiny is in their hands and not in the hands of a foreign occupying power. I truly hope the peace is as well executed as the military victory has been. Cheers Doug Marker Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003 Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
Post #95,517 by screamer 4/9/03 7:33:51 PM Reply	Extremely excellent summary... and it is a shame that territorial boundaries will cause further grief. It is my opinion (only mine) that the dream of "Kurdistan", which includes areas of modern day Turkey and Iran may lead to further bloodshed. The UN had best look to Yugoslavia (was anything learned in that debockle) to see how not to respond to a volatile territorial situation. I do believe that the UN will have a very instrumental role in the rebuilding of Iraq. The US posturing about "you didn't help us gather the wheat, bake the bread, etc." will only last for a few months. As to your major premise : The point this is leading to is the issue of if the Arabs see this Iraq victory as a defeat for all Arabs. If so then Mubarak's remark about this year being the year of 100 Osama Bin Laden's will come true. You are spot on. I do believe that most moderate Arabs will be keeping a very close eye on the US and Britain (who formerly ruled them - Palestine - and US and you AU (not to be confused with gold?)) and respond accordingly in approximately 2 years. If we provide interim gov services and police until Iraqis can hold elections and then get the hell out unless needed, the Arabs (the common folk) may view this action as a true liberation. The powers that be in the Arab world will most probably not portray this action in a great light as it is counter to their own self interests. The propoganda war is going to be critical in the next few years. One thing that Europeans (and Americans and Aussie's by proxy) have in their favor is the real historical reverence for the history of Persia/cradle of civilization. I noticed that not one historic site was harmed in this incursion to date (save for Baghdad). I don't know if this is inate in the Western pysche or not, but I feel a true respect for the people and history of the region, fwiw. By reading Bush's blueprint and listening to his words (which to this point have been absolutely true - even including the entire US war strategy before it was launched), I conclude that he has this respect for Iraq in his psyche as well. We can hope. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #95,523 by dmarker 4/9/03 7:55:30 PM Reply	I also support your Bush perspective in that ... The words you quoted were pretty clear & yes, that agenda is being followed. My main ramblings about Bush have been how badly he sells the story outside US compared to how well it goes down within US. Powell really carried US international prestige on his shoulders to offset Bush's appalling international image. But, if we can assume that the peace is as well planned as the military strategy, the Bush image problem can be fixed. Not sure how though, one way is to have him stand down in place of someone who has what it takes to repair US image with foreign partners, but a strategy like that risks electoral uncertainty and as long as Bush has the hearts & minds of US citizens, he seems the choice for next presidential election, this in turn leaves a possible odium in the international sphere. Tough call. Cheers Doug Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003 Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003

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