Post #92,065
3/26/03 9:49:18 PM
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60 minutes on Iraq
a piece showing the first deliveries of supplies to the Iraqis in the south. A little girl about the size of my 5 yo carrying a jerrycan of fresh water. She stops and thumbs up the camera a couple of times. A marine with tears in his eyes saying to help these people made the mission for him. Note to marines, a thumbs up is equiv to a middle finger around here. A peace symbal a V sign doesnt mean peace or victory, seeing a lot of those as well.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #92,077
3/26/03 10:42:44 PM
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Re: 60 minutes on Iraq
I have a bird (a cockatiel) nicknamed Flip.
But seriously, the sourpusses are actually trying to redefine expressions of happiness. I guess blowing kisses means "kiss off" and smiling is actually baring their teeth in anger, and waving is "buh-BYE!" Next we'll hear the Iraqis breathe carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.
"Yup these Iraqis are smiling and laughing as they hold more food in their hands than they had all year, and to top it off they flip multiple offensive gestures at a large group of heavily armed white devil-men, who (according to what the "balanced" media report) they think are trying to kill every last one of them."
Pretty desperate. Never thought they'd try "revisionist present."
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Post #92,089
3/26/03 11:39:02 PM
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Latest videos we had from Umm Qasar so much better
The stuff on Ozzie TV showed 'happy little vegemites' (Aussie expression for nice).
That was what we were expecting at the start.
But in one other city where the US took the risk & drove in supplies, one crowd stood chanting something akin to 'hail Saddam we love you'. But beyond that they were satisfied to take the supplies.
We also had reports of at least 200 civillian dead in one town. The reports explained that the marines were getting tougher, they shot at anything that moved - there was also one report of troops entering a house to find 2 dead children a wounded father & ok mother the shooting was from 'stray bullets' (Hmmm maybe they should be booked for jay-zapping).
As the war is progressing both in time and toward Bagdhad, the killing is getting meaner. But as always it is Saddam's fault.
Doug M
Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003
Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
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Post #92,110
3/27/03 1:02:17 AM
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RTFineM
[link|http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2002/iraq-book.htm|http://www.globalsec...002/iraq-book.htm]
Gestures
There are gestures used in the Arab world that convey different meanings
from those used in America. An Arab may signify \ufffdyes\ufffd with a
downward nod. \ufffdNo\ufffd can be signaled in several ways: tilting one\ufffds head
slightly back and raising the eyebrows; moving one\ufffds head back and
chin upward; moving one\ufffds head back and making a clicking sound with
the tongue; or using the open palm moved from right to left toward the
person. \ufffdThat\ufffds enough, thank you,\ufffd may be indicated by patting the
heart a few times. \ufffdExcellent\ufffd is expressed with open palms toward the
person. \ufffdOK\ufffd may be shown by touching the outer edge of one\ufffds eyes
with the fingertips. The \ufffdA-OK\ufffd (forming a circle with the index finger
and thumb of one hand) and \ufffdthumbs-up\ufffd gesture are considered
obscene by Arabs. The left hand is considered unclean; the right hand
should be used when gesturing. To beckon another person, all fingers
wave with the palm facing downward.
--
Chris Altmann
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Post #92,161
3/27/03 11:03:21 AM
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So far I've seen conflicting statements
though saying that "thumbs up" is obscene appears to be the latest rage on all the angst-blogs.
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Post #92,163
3/27/03 11:07:49 AM
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why dont you try a human source?
and do the stand in front of the mosque thing, report back what you find. The internet also reports ufo's etc. Do you buy into that as well?
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #92,178
3/27/03 11:20:58 AM
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Re: why dont you try a human source?
If you smile at someone who hates you (whether or not it's cultural), they will not smile back.
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Post #92,118
3/27/03 2:51:39 AM
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Food mystery - missing supplies
"Yup these Iraqis are smiling and laughing as they hold more food in their hands than they had all year,
One Iraqi official appearently said that each city was given a 6-month supply of food before the war. However, nobody knows what happened to these supplies in many cases. Somebody is lying or hording.
________________
oop.ismad.com
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Post #92,079
3/26/03 10:56:30 PM
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That guy bopping Saddam's poster on the nose with his shoe?
I guess he was showing his displeasure at the GI ripping up the poster at the time as he hammered on Saddam's nose with his shoe and turned around and smiled at the camera, right? ;-)
I haven't seen the show in question, and couldn't find it on CBS's web page. But I have seen other pictures of people being very happy that the US was there.
Of course you are right that hand gestures can have different meanings in different cultures. In some cultures, shaking one's head side to side means Yes...
It depends on the context of the gestures. The world's getting smaller all the time and many, many cultures are aware of gestures that Americans and the British use (from movies and the like).
FWIW. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #92,080
3/26/03 11:01:35 PM
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interesting note, the reporter had an Iraqi who
spoke perfect english at the water truck who was very happy that the americans were there. The reporter asked for an on air interview, He looked around and said (according to the reporter) "the place is full of detectives" he would be happy to interview later after the US takes over. Once bit twice shy I guess. Oh yeah, if you're antiwar dont flash the peace sign at brits, head butt will follow.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #92,082
3/26/03 11:04:32 PM
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Re: That guy bopping Saddam's poster on the nose with his sh
[link|http://www.geocities.com/smwenneryeaman/CultureGuideNonVerbal.html|http://www.geocities...ideNonVerbal.html] Yeah. Link above is Geocities but surprisingly coherent. Excerpt: The "thumbs up" gesture to indicate success or to wish someone good luck will generally be understood throughout the UAE. So it's not so set in stone. There may be some old truth to it, but that might have died out...or become ambiguous. Most sites bringing this up are sour-grapes blogs referring to other blogs...too bad that a little misinformation isn't going to make the world say "Oh, now I get it, they are really flipping us off."
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Post #92,084
3/26/03 11:13:08 PM
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Now I have never been to Iraq but have visited the
general neighborhood, Afghanistan, Pakistan in the seventies so am assuming the gesture is the same as those areas. To check stand outside a mosque friday night and thumbsup the men that look arabic when they come out. Report back what you find out.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #92,085
3/26/03 11:19:29 PM
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Re: Now I have never been to Iraq but have visited the
Maybe they think thumbs up is offensive over here? Kind of like if an Arab made a big show of raising his heel to you, you'd be offended....
Plus you were a dirty American.
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Post #92,090
3/26/03 11:40:57 PM
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I might be a dirty american
but at least I have seen more countries than most. Clue by four taco bell isnt representative of hispanic cuisine.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #92,095
3/26/03 11:56:48 PM
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Re: taco bell isnt representative?
How can that be? They use a chiuaua mascot! :)
Ai, caramba!
Alex
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
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Post #92,096
3/26/03 11:59:17 PM
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I would interpret the thumbs up as OK. Some variations:
In Iraq they will insult your moustache.
'Curse be upon your moustache'
Funnily, as kids in New Zealand we used to yell 'poo to your letterbox' as an insult. I haven't heard that one since other than in items about the past (left NZ at age 6).
The V sign (as we have discussed some months back) has two ways of doing it and two distinct meanings. With the inside of the fingers facing you and your fingers slightly bent, it is a pommie way of saying 'get f***ed' and derives from when about 2000 british longbowmen slaughtered 7000 Frenchmen at Agincourt in the 15th century. After that the French when capturing English longbowmen would cut off those 2 fingers (string pulling ones) so when a Brit showed those two fingers it was his way of saying 'you are done for (or f***ed)'.
The other V sign is when the fingers are held stiff and the backs of them are to you (the V signee). This came from Winston Churchill and meant V for Victory. In Japan people (esp the young) use the sign a lot to mean 'Peace and Happiness'.
I don't have any explanation for the origin of the middle finger salute. I am not sure where it eminated but I know its intent <grin>.
As for the thumb sign. In England it was always used as a sign of solidarity, in Australia, as a "she'll be right mate". i.e. Everything is going OK.
Now then, we have the 2 fingers (the pointing fingers) crossed, we take that to mean bad or evil or 'the devil'.
The V signs and thumbs up I saw in the news reports struck me as very positive signs of support.
Cheers
Doug Marker
Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003
Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
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Post #92,097
3/27/03 12:03:28 AM
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Who are you, and what have you done with dmarker?
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Post #92,273
3/27/03 6:49:36 PM
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Meaning ??? (please don't get mystical like Box does) <g>
Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003
Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
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