Re: Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?'

Post #90,475 by rcareaga 3/22/03 8:41:41 PM Reply	Re: Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?' intercepted radio communications indicate that during the morning period of March 22 the US forces lost 10-15 tanks destroyed or disabled If I recall aright the accounts I read of the last go-around, 10-15 Abrams tanks in one morning would be an improvement of 10-15 tanks over the foe's entire score from 1991. With all due respect to the Rooskies, of whom as you know I am rather fond, I suspect that the allegation will prove, as the late Ron Ziegler used to say, "inoperative." Were these Russ reports pure fabrication - what does Putin imagine would be the outcome, when obv. lies were later proven ?? I shouldn't imagine Putin is aware of, or will feel particularly responsible for, these accounts. But the news today has seemed a bit thin and sparse--it would be nice to have a few more details. cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Post #90,497 by inthane-chan 3/22/03 9:58:24 PM Reply	Sorry, gotta nix that one. There was a tank that included somebody who went to my high school that got nailed. No survivors. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
Post #90,505 by rcareaga 3/22/03 10:22:13 PM Reply	Re: Sorry, gotta nix that one. No quarrel there. I'll consult the written account I have (a tome called "Crusade") to see if I can get a better idea of the number of killed tanks. cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Post #90,620 by rcareaga 3/23/03 10:46:22 AM Reply	more on tanks A quick skim of the relevant portions of "Crusade" (Rick Atkinson, Houghton Mifflin 1993) does not turn up any mention of lost US tanks (are you certain it was a tank and not, say, a Bradley in which your co-alumnus snuffed it?), although this is not by any means, of course, proof that none were. The book does include an account of a 40 minute engagement on 27 February 1991 in which the 1st Armored Division's 2nd Brigade in "forty minutes...without suffering a scratch...destroyed sixty T-72s and dozens of personnel carriers...All told [I assume from context that this refers to a two-day period at the end of february], the 1st Armored Division destroyed approximately three hundred Iraqui armored vehicles at a cost of one American killed." This was the source of my skepticism anent the Russian account of US tank losses. cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Post #90,847 by inthane-chan 3/23/03 7:57:16 PM Reply	I must admit third hand info on this. I didn't personally know the classmates in question - I knew some people who knew them, and I knew who they were. Word came back that way. Side question - an ex-Microsoft co-contractor of mine was a sniper during Gulf War I. He said that you had one guy sitting on top of a tank, (note the word 'tank' not 'M1') totally unprotected by the armor, for dealing with threats that the tank couldn't see due to reduced visibility caused by, well, all the armor in the way. He said he was one of those guys, and his "tank" got hit by the one type of shell that wouldn't kill him - the kind that penetrates and then bounces around inside a whole lot. Don't know how much to trust him on that, but any confirmation of the tactic (sticking a sniper on a moving vehicle) would be interesting to hear. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
Post #90,863 by boxley 3/23/03 8:33:23 PM Reply	been along time but sniping requires a still platform for long range accurate shootimg. Am infantryman stationed on a hull is useful im some cases but most modern tanks have headsup all weather electronically enhanced displays that are almost 360 in available views. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] To a lot of people in California hunting anything but the wild tofualope was equivelent to sacarificing babies to satan. S.M. Stirling
Post #90,508 by JayMehaffey 3/22/03 10:35:12 PM Reply	Someplace inbetween I think the reality is someplace inbetween what is being reported here and what you can see in US news sites. Take the story about the surrender 51st infantry division. This was all over the US news sites yesterday, which claimed that the entire division had given up. That some 8000 men had surrendered to US forces and so on. This site says the entire story was fabricated, the first I had heard that particular accusation. So I did some looking around, and here is what I found. [link\|http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?ccode=ENG4&newscode=1255\|Deepikaglobal] [link\|http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=275648&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y\|Ha'aretz] [link\|http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=389880\|Independent UK] Iraq is claiming the entire story is a fabrication, but other sources say that it's just an exaggeration. Part of the unit, including commanding officers, have surrendered, but not the entire unit. If I recall aright the accounts I read of the last go-around, 10-15 Abrams tanks in one morning would be an improvement of 10-15 tanks over the foe's entire score from 1991. I know Iraq got a couple of tanks in the first war, but only like half a dozen. As I recall, they where all to land mines also. Jay

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