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New Complex situation
There are very close ties between bin Ladin and the Taliban, but from what I have read there is also a certain amount of conflict between the two. The Taliban is very much an Afghanistan Nationalist movement, it really has little interest in international affairs, it just wants to make Afghanistan into their idea of a perfect Muslim country. The movement that bin Ladin leads is an international Muslim movement. It wants to force the west out of the middle east, using terrorism as the way to achieve this.

This Bin Laden / Taliban / Global Jihad / War on America thing is now very frightening - they have shown us what they can do - if we are not careful in how we go about killing the beast we may spawn an army of fanatical clones who use each preceeding martydom as further fuel for the next - just look at this same pattern in Palestine.

Yes, like Israel often is, the US is very likely to find itself in the position of trying to decide which response will result in the least long term damage. If we don't track down the people responsible and punish them, they will think they are succeeding and will do it again. If we do track them down, it's very likely to encourage others to emulate them. Which response will result in the fewest deaths in the long run?

Jay
New Re: Bin Laden begat Taliban & Pakistan props them up
"The Taliban is very much an Afghanistan Nationalist movement, it really has little interest in international affairs, it just wants to make Afghanistan into their idea of a perfect Muslim country. "

From what I have read & observed, esp what happened in Algeria Afghanistan, Chechenya, Pakistan, Indonesia, Bosnia, Albania, Phillipines & Northern China, over the past 10 years, The Taliban is but one of the creations of Bin Laden's organisation & Pakistan are holding Taliban together with support from other militant & fundamentalist organisations in other countries.

Bin Laden was the mastermind who created a global militant Islamic 'army' of logistics supporters, fund raisers & fighters who are sent to different locations to either fight with, train or support embattled Islamic peoples & regimes. His other longer term goal is to attempt to gain control of any already Islamic country where they might be able to implement strictly Islamic law and government. He also wants to destabilise any western country as a means of weakening them while building up Islamic nations. Bin Laden has a long term and global view. To call him a terrorist is merely an opinion. I think there is no doubt that his group fosters, ferments & supports terrorism as one of their weapons, A bit like Ollie North & the Contras etc: did in south America in the 70s & 80s.

The Abu Sayef group in southern Phillipines have been fund raising for years. Things got out of hand there recently when the greedy Phillipine president tried to take a slice of the monies that were being paid over as ransoms. Others resented what he was doing and he was toppled.

In Indonesia, the Bin Laden organisation is funding the ongoing rebellion in the Ache province. We need to remember that Indonesia is the most populated Islamic country in the world. Bin Laden's movement want to establish a fundamentalist Islamic state there. Western powers are doing what they can to prevent this. Islamic militants were being shipped to the Indonesian islands where Christians lived & set about killing them & pushing them out.

In Chechenya, US gave support to Russia to go in a 2nd time to try to wipe out all traces of Islamic control. The Russians needed 2 goes. In the end they have almost succeeded. Bin Laden's org trained many of the fighters sent into battle to fight with the Chechens.

Georgia, Tadjikistan, Azibijan, Uzbekistan etc: are all potential dominoes to be toppled in the region. Then there are the northern Chinese provinces.

Bin Laden's group was formed to boost Islamic prestige and pride. The bloody murderous civil war in Algeria was the starting point coupled with the Afghani fight against Russia. Of course the middle east Palestine/Israel conflict has contributed to the desire to unite. The leaders of Bin Laden's orgs are mostly Algerian & Afghan with a good number of Pakistanis as well. (The moral courage came from the Iranian revolution).

Bin Laden's org has tremendous support & to understand why just imagine living in a world where Christians are the marginalised ones and the Islamic peoples were in control & considered ruthless (historical fact is that Islam has often been more tolerant of Christians than Christians have of Muslims). Anyway, along comes a visionary Christian who has the money charisma & influence to encourage Christians to stand up and not be downtrodden by the dominant powers.
He calls for Christian martyrs who will give their lives to defend the faith and attack the symbols of the oppressing 'enemy' as well as to fight in different parts of the world to defend Christian communities.

Well that is how many Islamic people see the west & US in particular.

Make no mistake about Bin Laden or the role the Taliban & Pakistan are playing in the events unfolding.

It is quite possible the enormity of what is taking place has not yet sunk in among those of us who have not lived in the midst of the historical changes taking place.

America, the west, capitalism are being attacked and the odd part about all this is that we are about to witness old enemies forming close and deep bonds to fend off the assault.

Russia will join with Europe & US & China to form a united front against militant Islam. Some Islamic countries may join but if they do it may also tear them apart. Saudi Arabia is a case in point - remember that Bin Laden comes from there.

Doug Marker











     Some possible future scenarios possibilities .... - (dmarker2) - (6)
         couple of thoughts... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
             Here's another - (pwhysall) - (4)
                 Re: This report says Bin Laden *was* CinC of Taliban forces - (dmarker2) - (3)
                     Re: (hardcopy + easy click to the UPI report) - (dmarker2)
                     Complex situation - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                         Re: Bin Laden begat Taliban & Pakistan props them up - (dmarker2)

Not the sharpest knives in the drawer by far.
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