Post #8,515
9/12/01 8:41:58 AM
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now can we use cell phones on planes since it doesnt affect
the steering. Have known this for a while but arnt the airlines going to look silly insisting cells are a hazard?
thax,
bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
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Post #8,518
9/12/01 8:57:27 AM
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Thought of this, too
I can see the new guidelines now: Cell phone use during flight is prohibited in all cases except during in-flight hijacking Sorry...this is probably a bit glib. However, all I've been hearing all day is how we can expect "restrictions on our freedoms" in the wake of this cowardly deed. In order to retain something of a sense of humor about life in general, one must attempt to find the silver lining in this. Perhaps the ability to use your own cell phone in flight is such a silver lining.... jb4
(Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #8,521
9/12/01 9:01:27 AM
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Its more than that.
The biggest problem with that - is the stress it puts on the *phone infrastructure* - which expects you might be in range of 2-3 towers. Get above the ground,a nd suddenly... lots of towers.
But the problem isn't that they know it will/won't cause a problem, its that they don't KNOW that it WON'T.
Think about it - do you want everybody chatting on cell phones, if it *might* screw something up?
FAA regulations for certificating things are incredibly rigorous. Its why planes cost so damn much. There's also a profit motive, with how much the airline's phone system makes, but trust me, there's lots of very real concern about things that might happen.
Look at the Osprey... They didn't test a couple things there, and.....
Addison
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Post #8,541
9/12/01 10:17:54 AM
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Its not an FAA regulation it is an airline regulation
There is no FAA reg against cell phones. Boeing put an incredible amount of cell traffic on a jet in a hanger, didnt twitch anything.
thanx,
bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
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Post #8,559
9/12/01 10:51:11 AM
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Yes, it is. (An FAA reg)
[link|http://ecfrback.access.gpo.gov/otcgi/cfr/otfilter.cgi?DB=1&ACTION=View&QUERY=91.21&RGN=BSEC&OP=and&QUERY=14&RGN=BTI&QUERY=1349&RGN=BSECCT&SUBSET=SUBSET&FROM=1&ITEM=1|FAA FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation Part 91.25]
\ufffd 91.21 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to --
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
In other words - unless the specific cell phone has been tested, and proven not to cause a problem, and certified, by each airline, its illegal to use.
Addison
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Post #8,568
9/12/01 11:13:39 AM
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pilots call not the FAA per 5c
heh thought I would have to admit publicly I was wrong and bookmark that for future reference.
thanx,
bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
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Post #8,605
9/12/01 12:51:33 PM
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Read Closer
It's the Pilot's call in planes OTHER THAN air carrier certificated operations.
In commercial air travel with passengers it is illegal.
-----
Steve
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Post #8,623
9/12/01 1:25:46 PM
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upon re read it is the operators call not FAA
In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that OPERATOR of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used.
Sheesh the things I do to avoid being wrong. :)
thanx,
bill
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
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Post #8,620
9/12/01 1:21:31 PM
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Why that one?
Electric shavers!?!?!?!?!
How did that make the list? If you've got a better safe than sorry approach, surely whoever is riding the plane can put off shaving for the duration of the flight.
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
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Post #8,624
9/12/01 1:30:32 PM
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Mwybe I'm misreading it but...
...according to paragraph 5: (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. [emphasis mine] You, being a newly registered pilot and all (Congrats, BTW!) might understand this gobbledegook better than I; however, doesn't "operator of the aircraft" mean United, AA, Delta, et al? jb4
(Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #8,627
9/12/01 1:44:44 PM
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Also
That paragraph only comes into effect if the operator (which I too read to be the carrier) specifically makes the assessment. If the carrier does not make that exclusion, the FAA rule is actively enforceable.
~~~)-Steven----
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Post #8,632
9/12/01 2:18:25 PM
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No, that's right
You, being a newly registered pilot and all (Congrats, BTW!) might understand this gobbledegook better than I; however, doesn't "operator of the aircraft" mean United, AA, Delta, et al?
Thanks.
Yes, it means the airlines themselves (we won't get into fractionals and charter and stuff).
So they have to certify that your cell phone won't disrupt anything.
In all conditions, phases of flight (or which ones its restricted to), etc.
Addison
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Post #8,534
9/12/01 9:51:18 AM
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Bzzt
Wrongo!
My first cousin is an avionics tester for Boeing in Seattle. The device most affected by electronics onboard the plane is the compass.
The compass can be affected up to 2 degrees (or more) by some electronic devices. The problem is that he has only tested a few hundred devices since it is so expensive. There are thousands out there and more everyday, thanks to our wonderful high tech economy.
Now, if you're blowing up the WTC, it might not be as much of an issue because you can see it for miles and miles from the air.
But, if you're flying in weather (no landmarks), on instruments, over the ocean, etc. it can be serious.
He disagreed with the decision to allow them over 10,000 feet and argues that you really shouldn't use them at all on the aircraft. He felt that Boeing/FAA/vendors should test and provide a list of approved devices if they were to be used at all. Laptops are generally low emissions, but phones are very bad, and some computer games (with little or no shielding) are bad. However, we were at a family reunion and he really didn't want to talk about work, so the topic shifted to family. His management overruled him on many of his decisions. (The PHBs win again.)
BTW, he's no longer on the avionics test anymore, he's doing military applications.
Glen Austin
I know I need to get a better picture.
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