Naming classes

Post #83,403

2/22/03 1:51:44 PM

Naming classes

\r\n
\r\n4. As I've said elsewhere here, be careful of naming classes after their\r\ncurrent colors or what-have-you. You should rename "sitelinksred" to\r\nsomething that has more to do with the content, or at least layout, than\r\nthe style, like "bodytextlinks" or something. That way, when you decide to\r\nmake them blue, you don't have to rewrite the HTML or become confused. :)\r\n
\r\n\r\nI thought about that after it was all done, about 20 minutes before the\r\ndemo... Fixed it now... instead of "red" "redorange" "orange" "yellow"... I am\r\nusing "black" "verydark" "dark" "medium" "light" "bright" maybe a "verybright"\r\nin the future. I tend to think in colors when coding like this, rather than\r\nobject reference. I also consider what's behind it in the background.\r\n

\r\n\r\n

I don't think that's what the suggestion was. Rather than name the\r\nstyles for the attributes they're changing (color, light/dark,\r\netc.), name them for the content they're describing --\r\nemphasized text, a specific callout block, title, navigation elements,\r\netc.

\r\n\r\n

If you want to reference the title text to a specific set of color\r\nand face defintions, then do so. But if you want to change from\r\nboldOrange to blueBackgroundYellowForegroundItalic, you're still dealing\r\nwith TitleBlock. And if (down the road) you're dealing with a\r\ntext-to-voice renderer, you'd have the audio CSS attributes in the same\r\nstyle, rendered when creating audio output. For which font color, face,\r\nstyle, and background colors are irrelevant.

\r\n\r\n

This is a fundamental lesson in coding modularity to reflect your\r\ndomain space, not arbitrary aspects of your language or tools.

\r\n

--\r\n Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n

Post #83,415

by folkert

2/22/03 3:33:09 PM

Okies... I do realize...

When I was thinking... I was running out of wood.

I was trying to make the stylesheet based on appearances. I want the links colors and back ground to be "externally" controlled and coordinated, rather than be "region or use" specific. Now, granted it's more difficult to keep those in your head.

Think about this, I am indeed new to XHTML and CSS, therefore I am applying things differently than you would or someone else would. Also real coding is a brave new world for me, I just don't want to have pre-concieved ideas or notions when it comes to style...

Convince me I am wrong in feeling that treating links seperately from content... even though they may be content, as well... Now is there good reason to treat them similarly to text/content? When I generalized those anmes from "red" "redorange" "orange" "yellow" to "black" "verydark" "dark" "medium" "light" "bright" maybe a "verybright", does that preclude NOT specifying a background color? No it does not... Does it preclude that they must stay red=>yellow based? No. Does this mean I cannot surround them with Gruesomely Gaudy coloring? No Or even extrememly fine variants? No. It just means, a bit more coding by me to make the rendering along the lines I want.

If you'll notice, I have made most thing relative... sizes, spacings, margins etc... are mostly em based or percentage based... I am trying to make it a framework to use more effectively for myself. I am still learning this.

b4k4^2

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT

[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]

[link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004]

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These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
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Post #83,417

by tseliot

2/22/03 4:14:27 PM

No, but if you stay true to the names...

..it precludes making them the same brightness, or inverted, or fine shades of the same palette, or (god forbid) blinking if that's what a future design dictates.

I think you're doing extremely well for being old to HTML but new to CSS. There are some definite paradigm shifts involved in separating style from content, the most dramatic of which (and therefore the one people rarely understand quickly) is that it's not just about putting style in a separate document. It's about isolating style from content, in exactly the same way you normalize tables in a database or refactor classes in an application; all are techniques to give you a fluid abstraction layer, so that the connections between the layers have more flexibility, and therefore more "power" from an architectural point-of-view. So, names for things in the content layer which instantiate *any* style-layer information disrupt that. It would be like having a polymorphic subclass which you then name after a data point in the abstract class anyway.

What this means for CSS/HTML is that the style parameter in an HTML element doesn't belong to the style layer, just because it's named "style". It belongs to the content (HTML) layer, and should have a name which reflects its role in the HTML layer, not its role in the style layer.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10

Post #83,423

by folkert

2/22/03 6:29:53 PM

Thank you...

You effectively said the exact same things Karsten said... but in terms some more used to the "sysadmin role" would understand...

As soon as you mentioned "normalizing tables", it clicked... not that Karsten was any better or worse... just that wording sometimes *CAN* be what helps in the same way as examples of working code...

Now, then getting back to your making the div layout a have a display:block in it... but ONLY there...

I am having a hard coming-up with a working one other than putting it in just plain "a". Then that just screw's up the WHOLE friggin thing.

I am guessing I don't understand as much as I thought about how naming comes into the work... cause I have tried various class names to get it to worky... The W3C isn't as clear as I'd like on it... or I can't find the right reference there... I really need to buy one the following books:

Eric Meyer's —
[link|http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=073571245X|Eric Meyer on CSS : Mastering the Language of Web Design], July 2002
[link|http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=0072131780|Cascading Style Sheets 2.0 Programmer's Reference], March 2001
[link|http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=1565926226|Cascading Style Sheets: The Definitive Guide], March 2000

Christopher Schmitt's —
[link|http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=0735712638|Designing CSS Web Pages], September 2002

Owen Briggs, Eric Costello, Matt Patterson, Steven Champeon —
[link|http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=1904151043|Cascading Style Sheets: Separating Content from Presentation], May 2002

Gonna leave for the store... hopefully they have one of them... or all five, then I can choose. :)

Any other suggestions?

b4k4^2

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT

[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]

[link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004]

Post #83,425

by tseliot

2/22/03 6:40:48 PM

I highly recommend the first one

Eric Meyer on CSS : Mastering the Language of Web Design, July 2002

Does it not work to use a declaration like:

a.topiclinks { display: block; }

IOW, what's called a class selector (the . dot and the class name)? Regardless of how it actually gets to work, you need to pay most attention to [link|http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#child-selectors|chapter 5 in the CSS2 spec], which covers selectors. This was one of the harder things for me to get into my head, but made all the difference. Almost everything else is just learning syntax; chap 5 is the conceptual biggie.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10

Post #83,430

by folkert

2/22/03 7:19:12 PM

Guess I am daft...

Because I must be typing something wrong... or I am not just using the proper name or SOMETHING...

I just need to sit and read for a while... not ONLINE, in my hand... sitting or laying on the couch. Maybe then I'll stop asking stupid questions...

Of course, I have been coding from looking at others work... and reading the W3C stuff (that's pretty dern DRY!!!) and doing some of the stuff as on-line tutorials... but it just doesn't cut it...

Never thought the internet would fail me... BOOO... HOOO... *sniff* *sniff*

Thanks for the words all.. and I'm gonna get #1 fer sure... and one other one...

b4k4^2

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT

[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]

[link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004]

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