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New An honest question.
I haven't been hanging out here a lot because there's an awful lot of discussion about topics that, while I have strong opinions about them, I have no idea how to go about doing anything concerning said opinions.

There's a lot of criticism of policy (or criticism of critique on policy) here, and I didn't want to start a thread that would be YAPCT (Yet Another Policy Critique Thread). What I'm more interested in is, what do YOU think needs to happen in order to improve the state of the world?

To be more specific, let's say instead "what do you think needs to be done to improve the United States?" Non-citizens are as welcome to answer this question as citizens, since non-citizens can get steamrolled by the US (or helped by the US) just as much as citizens can.

I'm not so much interested in posts that critique the "other side" as much as I want to know *specifically* what changes you think have to happen to make the US "better."

I'm not trying to set anyone up for a good thrashing. I *am* trying to get a feel for different perspectives, viewpoints, etc.

I'm also somewhat curious as to how long this thread will remain true to its stated objective before it degenerates into a verbal firefight... :) And there's always the possibility no-one will be interested in the topic, and it will simply fade away...
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New We need to support those watchdogs who guard our freedom
The ACLU. Yes everyone has a cause that these people have trampled on. That is because they are equal opportunity folks. They are fighting right now to safeguard our freedoms from governmental abuse at the hands of the Justice department. Help the EEF and anyone else who is struggling against the DCMCIA and the RIAA. Also being homeless and hungry is not a crime. Drop off some spare food at a shelter or food bank. If you have extra clothing dont give it to stores that make a living reselling used clothing, find a local charity that gives clothes away. Usually church based so it is dificult for some. There is a lot of things that can make America better, but mostly get involved personally. Time is a precious commodity so spending some is a great gift.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New But how do you get involved?
Giving money to the ACLU is good, but if that's all you do then it seems more like paying someone else to fix the problem. Which isn't what you're saying, I know, but other than paying a political action committee like the ACLU or the EFF, what next?

Giving to charities can help releive people who are suffering from problems, but can it actually solve those problems? Whether it can or can't has no bearing on whether or not those charities are good things, in my opinion, but while putting a cold compress on a fevered patient can keep the patient from frying his/her own brain, you still need a way to deal with the sickness itself. So how do you deal with *that*?
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Re: But how do you get involved?
>you still need a way to deal with the sickness itself.

Has anyone specifically identified the sickness?
Tom Sinclair

"Everybody is someone else's weirdo."
- E. Dijkstra
New Probably not.
I was assuming from Bill's post that he viewed the sickness as a loss of civil liberties and poverty.

"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New IANAL so I can only contribute
the poor will always be with us, there is no cure for poverty. I am not talking donations only, stop and have a conversation with some of these folks, might learn something. I am not advocating that this will make America better, I am advocating that giving dignity to others has a ripple effect. The $10 you give to an old man whose food stamps wont come in for 4 days might come in handy when you are old, broke and your food stamps wont come in for 4 days. Its called sympathetic magic :-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New What ya said - is one good specific minimal start..
New Basically...
Begins:
He grabs a *REALLY BIG* gargum eraser...

Ends:
He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

I think we are almost to "42"... or really close anyway.
b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]   [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]
[link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004]
Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints.
New So then...
your contention is that there is *nothing* to be done?
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Well, not by *We the People of the world"...
But by some other entity...

But also, there is nothing that *CAN* be done to fix the issue(s)...

Other than starting over with a fresh piece of paper and Blue ink...

b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]   [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]
[link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004]
Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints.
New But it's said that God works through human beings.
And I have trouble with the notion of God as some sort of Santa Claus who's gonna fix everything and give us a nice perfect world as soon as He gets around to it.

Somebody once said something about faith and works...
No oil for TotalFinaElf!
CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere!
Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New Where to start?
#1. Stop the loss of civil rights.

#2. Re-vamp the tax structure and narrow the gap between the ultra-wealthy and everyone else.

#3. Corporation re-form. Corporations are a good idea, but they aren't people and do not have the rights that people do.

#4. Re-vamp the election process. We've seen several good ideas on how to do this. I prefer the "vote for who you want to win and who you'll accept".

#5. Cut the sales of offensive weapons.

#6. Get off the mid-east oil.

#7. Universal health care (at least at a basic level).

Well, that's a start, at least.
New Re: Where to start?
> #1. Stop the loss of civil rights.

What is the best way to do this? It seems like very few political players in the game today are willing to make more than a token effort to stop this particular erosion. I guess the simple solution would be "see #4..."

> #2. Re-vamp the tax structure and narrow the gap between the ultra-wealthy and everyone else.

I guess I really don't have a follow-up question to this right at the moment, but if I think of one I'll post again.

> #3. Corporation re-form. Corporations are a good idea, but they aren't people and do not have the rights that people do.

What's the best way to go about this? The amendment in the Bill of Rights that was originally passed to establish/protect the right of black men to vote was upheld by the Supreme Court as providing protection to corporations *before* they tried any cases that dealt with its *original* purpose. What's the best way to get the SC to overturn that precedent? Or would it be better/easier to propose a new amendment clarifying the purpose of the previous?

> #4. Re-vamp the election process. We've seen several good ideas on how to do this. I prefer the "vote for who you want to win and who you'll accept".

I'm not familiar with this. Do you mean vote twice?

> #5. Cut the sales of offensive weapons.

What is the best way to do this? How do you get around the second amendment? I mean that as a technical question -- if we assume for the sake of argument that the second amendment can be interpreted in a flexible manner, how do we interpret it to accomplish this goal?

> #6. Get off the mid-east oil.

What's the best way to do so, and what do we do until then?

> #7. Universal health care (at least at a basic level).

What would a basic level of health care entail?


(Not that you're required to answer any of my follow up questions, or anything. But I am curious).
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New See #4. :)
#1 and #3 both require getting people into office that will pass AND ENFORCE those laws.

#4 is sort of like voting twice. But on one ballot. Example, I voted for Nader. But other people would have voted for Nader, except there was no way he was going to win so they voted for Gore.

If people like me had voted for Gore, he would have been elected.

So, on the ballot, you're allowed to choose TWO people for each office.

#5. Whoops. I meant to foreign countries. We can sell things like anti-aircraft batteries, but no rockets or missiles. Defense is fine, but if they want offensive capabilities, they'll have to build their own.

#6. This will take some time. But the BEST way to do it is to simply cut oil imports from there by 5% or 10% a year and require better fuel economy / alternative sources be developed / implemented. Eventually the oil will run out anyway. This way, we're ahead of the game AND our economy is more stable.

#7. The basic level I see would be vacinations. The big problem is that our lifestyle (no exercise, lots of fat, salty foods) means that we'll have lots of health problems which means that the price for this will skyrocket quickly.
New An honest response - question.

To be more specific, let's say instead "what do you think needs to be done to improve the United States?" Non-citizens are as welcome to answer this question as citizens, since non-citizens can get steamrolled by the US (or helped by the US) just as much as citizens can.


Well...what do you mean by improve?

I'm serious, it sounds like you have a vision (or are asking for a vision) of what the US ought to be. While I (and others) have a vision of what the US ought to be, our system allows for these differences and has a process for determining which vision (at least for a while) will be standard.

New The reason I ask
is because much of this part of the board tends to "devolve" into people talking about everything that *other* people are doing *wrong*. From this, I can glean some ideas about what people think is right, but nothing particularly concrete. The tone of some posts in this forum leads me to believe that some think the world is going to hell and there's *nothing at all* that can be done about it except point it out.

I want to know what people think needs to be done, and *how* it should be done, as opposed to how people think we're currently doing it *wrong*. I think that would be useful. At the very least, I think it would be useful for me.

"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
New Moral seriousness first.
If you get serious, you become the center of localized problem-solving. If people start getting serious en masse, problems start to get solved on a larger scale. Unless the whole human race decides to get serious, all the world's ills will never be solved. So just settle for what's in your power. Perfectionism is futility.

If you're not serious, you won't be able to follow through. If you're not serious, you won't be able to focus. If you're not serious, you will get distracted. If you're not serious, you'll give up too easily. If you're not serious, you'll settle for a half-assed job or sweeping things under the rug.

If you're not serious, you won't respect yourself. And if you don't respect yourself, you won't really respect anything or anyone.

If you're not serious, you'll never be in a position to laugh at absurdity. You have to be serious to have a sense of humor. It's a matter of having a basis of comparison.

Don't get distracted by anybody selling grand overarching solutions, unless he shows signs of moral seriousness. Especially if they're vague and shouted with lots of animated gestures. That's how Marxist-Leninism got started.

I have no grand overarching solutions to offer. I make no apologies for this.

Specific solutions to specific problems will become obvious to a reasonable intelligence. But only if you get serious first.

Think tactically, not just strategically. Be input-driven and adaptable to changing situations. Try to see things coming. Be immune to surprise.

Prioritize.

Every experience is an opportunity to learn. Except death. So don't die unless you have to.

If something works, try it again. If something doesn't work, try something else.

P.S. Read about the Scottish Enlightenment. Those guys were seriously enlightened. They confronted problems, and actually solved a lot of them.
No oil for TotalFinaElf!
CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere!
Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Expand Edited by marlowe Feb. 20, 2003, 03:23:14 PM EST
New Typical Irish, never serious :-)
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New Lowland Scots were descended from Irish.
Somehow they managed to rise far above that. Which is one reason I don't believe in race. Only culture.
No oil for TotalFinaElf!
CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere!
Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New lowland scots? the folk Geordies use to wipe their arse with (new thread)
Created as new thread #83005 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=83005|lowland scots? the folk Geordies use to wipe their arse with]
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New A lesson in history of wise one - Lowlanders are true Scots

The highland tribes of Scotland are ethnically a mix of Irish & Scandanavian, their language, the tartans, the bagpipes came from Ireland. Scottish Gaelic is common to the Highlanders & Ireland (ref 'History of English' Faber & Faber Books - 'History of the English Speaking peoples', Winston Churchill))

The 'Lowlanders' between the English border & the highlands are & were the true 'Scottish' who spoke their own language different from the highland gaelic & English to the south. They were the first to adopt English in the 1700s when it begame fashionable to be able to speak "King's English". The highlanders retained gaelic & in remote places still speak it and can communicate with similar communities in remote parts of Ireland.

The Glasgow lowlanders are more of a polyglot mix because of Glasgows closeness to Belfast and that ferry's ran constantly between the two cities.

Geordies are unique & have a strong Norwegian influence, they differ markedly from the lowland Scots just a few miles away.

Doug Marker


New Agreement.___[!!]
We'd clash on the meaning of that very Large word moral though - so large as to have a personal meaning for most anyone with half a brain: but it won't be the same meaning. And so on.

And I'd agree with the implications and conclude that, no.. short of the Unknown as causes a shock: it isn't even worth the hot air to imagine "the world" behaving much differently.

Actually, kudos - for offering not even one overarching solution!
Me neither, but then - it's my 'belief' that there couldn't be such anyway, 'such as we are'.

'Seriousness' I'll have to ponder for a bit. It seems at least partly attainable. Sadly though - most ~sobering of a large group only ever follows some horrific natural or self-caused event. The soberness seems to evanesce when times get better, and then entertainment settles in. If this isn't a cycle, I don't know of an exception.

Helpful post,

Ashton
New Some thoughts.
As Simon said, it's a big and rather vague topic.

To improve the US economically, it's important for companies and the US government to realize that long-term research is important. That's how technology advances and improves our lives. That means ways need to be found to fund long-term, blue-sky, what-if research. How? Beats me. But it needs to be done. It took decades of research in solid-state physics and materials to produce the microprocessor. Ground-breaking products like that aren't going to be created by companies that are basing their research funding on their next quarter's stock results.

I think in many ways we're entering the last stages of an incredible boom in the US. As Ben pointed out, after the devastation of WWII, the US was a huge fraction of the world economy. It was easy for one person to work and support a family. Days before then, and these days, it was common for everyone in the family to work - sometimes in multiple jobs. It's disruptive and in many ways unfortunate that those days haven't been continuing, but I don't know if it's possible for them to. The world is growing, and that's a good thing. But it means that our relative advantage is shrinking so we have to work harder to get the same delta in our standard of living.

To improve the fairness and efficiency of the US tax code, ways need to be found to balance the need to fund the important functions of government with the means to pay for it. That means things like finding ways to tax internet commerce fairly. That probably means some sort of national sales tax. And a fair inheretance tax. Means-tested Social Security, Medicare, and even the mortgage-interest deduction. People who are committed to each other as a family should be regarded as such by the legal and tax system. That means, e.g. a 75 year old widower who shares his house with his widowed 78 year old sister should be regarded the same as newlyweds as far as the tax code is concerned. Whether they're married or not shouldn't matter - it's whether they act as a family (and I think a single person can act as a family in this sense - having a home, working, taking care of themselves, etc., etc.). As the Economist argued a few weeks ago, the fixed retirement age should be abandoned. Retirement benefits should be based on age of retirement and life expectancy - not reaching some particular magic age.

Immigration is important. But some way must be found to balance the good features of immigration with its disruptions - e.g. the disruptions that H1B visas can cause. We should straighten out our illegal immigration policies so that we don't have to have periodic amnesties for the millions of economic migrants who are here illegally for years (who also perform important functions in our economy). If we need these people, then we should find a way to make it legal for them to be here.

Taxes on oil and refined products should be increased substantially over time. The money should be used to improve public transportation, fund research on more efficient transportation technologies, fund passenger trains for commuters and long-haul traffic, and improve roads. Oil and gas are too cheap in the US and it causes problems for the country (as Brandioch likes to point out).

The public airwaves should be better-used in the public interest. As a condition of renewal of licences, radio and over-the-air TV should do much more to provide information to people on what their government is doing and where candidates stand. This will help reduce the pressure on them to raise money for campaigns. Cellular radio should be encoraged - to build neighborhoods and to give the national radio chains competition.

I don't like the idea of publically funded campaigns for public office. Who decides who gets funded? The devil's in the details and the incumbents get to write all the details. But our present system is broken - there are too many rules and too many ways around them. More disclosure is needed in ads and in fund-raising.

Microsoft should be broken up. :-) How? I don't know.

No further extensions of the terms of copyright should be permitted. Fair-use terms in the copyright law should be better balanced with the interests of the copyright holder. The conglomerates that control "content" these days are too often abusing their power.

Software "licenses" that give a client none of the rights of a purchaser when they plop down their money should be declared illegal. Software publishers should be forced to balance their rights with those of their customers. Software patents should be carefully re-evaluated. The terms of software copyrights should probably be re-evaluated as well.

Some form of national service should be strongly recommended to everyone between the ages of 18 and 25. The government should encourage it by more than words and some minor tax benefit. I don't at this time think it should be mandatory. I don't see the benefits of reinstating the draft, but I do see benefits in strongly encouraging local and national service in young people.

Property and violent crimes should be treated differently than crimes against society's good-conduct code. People shouldn't go to jail for taking illegal substances (but should be subject to jail if they do violent or dangerous things while taking them). People shouldn't go to jail for reading things that others don't like. Incitement to violence should be strongly discouraged in all aspects of society and severly punished.

Oh, and people should be nice to each other.

That's about it at the moment. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Book Recommendation and Answer
A couple years ago my grandmother gave me this book for x-mas. I took it with me as reading material on my trip to Cuba. The whole thing was kind of an eye opener.

[link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/039332169X/qid=1045791056/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-8291099-5077435|http://www.amazon.co...3-8291099-5077435]

Berman carefully develops his view on what is wrong with US Culture (a lot of his thesis is that there isn't any - instead we have commerce).

So what to do?

In the other responses so far I see lots of immediate concrete things to work on. This is OK and I think they are worth working on. But I also see them as symptoms of bigger problems.

The number one problem with the US right now is greed and selfishness. Its pervasive. The heroes are CEOs. The big stories are about how people have one little idea and get rich from it. The whole society is geared towards consumption and the "I got mine - get your own" attitude dominates.

What a sucky way to live.

I got an email this week that my elementary school gym teacher is retiring soon. I had to write him a letter because this guy made the school the center of a community. There were evening movies, family potlucks, fund raising talent shows, family ethnic dinners (bring something your grandma made in the old country) and a friday after school floor hockey league. We knew our neighbors. I haven't known my neighbors since I left college.

The best thing you can do to improve the US is go volunteer at your neighborhood school. Go teach something. Our educational system has been replaced by cable TV.

[link|http://www.thespot.org/|This guy] has at least a piece of the puzzle.

The government is meant to reflect the will of the people. What frightens me is that, maybe this one does.

Have to change that first.




I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.

--Alan Perlis
New Can only add -
This review from your link,
A slightly forbidding introduction to a book, but indicative of its author's disgust at the homogenized McWorld in which we live, and an enticing challenge to read on. As the title The Twilight of American Culture suggests, Morris Berman's outlook is somewhat bleak. Analogizing the contemporary United States to the late Roman Empire, Berman sees a nation fat on useless consumption, saturated with corporate ideology, and politically, psychically, and culturally dulled. But he believes that this behemoth--what Thomas Frank called the "multinational entertainment oligopoly"--must buckle under its own weight. His hope for a brighter tomorrow lies in a modern monastic movement, in which keepers of the enlightenment flame resist the constant barrage of "spin and hype." Ironically, despite his disdain for "the fashionable patois of postmodernism," he approvingly quotes poststructuralist theorist Jean-Fran\ufffdois Lyotard's maxim "elitism for everybody" in describing this cadre of idiosyncratic, literate devotees, these new monks.

Berman is plainspoken and occasionally caustic. The Twilight of American Culture is an informed and thought-provoking book, a wake-up call to a nation whose powerful minority has become increasingly self-satisfied as their stock options ripen, while an underclass that vastly outnumbers the e-generation withers on the vine and cannot locate itself on any map. It is a quick and savage read that aims to get your eyes off this computer, your nose out of that self-help book, and send you back to thought and action. --J.R.
And: it's pointless to imagineer any form of, "what the world ought to do"; hell, it's probably almost as pointless to echo! the Self-Help scourge and.. get very specific about the 12 x 12-Step program Muricans might... want to audition.

You have included already the more important ones (IMhO). I'd suggest though, that a 'larger scale' is where these good suggestions would have to follow from:

The world / the US / communities / individuals must rethink -each person- the idea of what Religion is For, what we really mean by the word diversity -- and give up entirely the now pervasive common theme:

Mine is the One True (Understanding).

Until this has become a humongous number of personal epiphanies (?) I don't believe that the rest of the work will even begin to start. That picture taken from the earliest moon landing, Earthrise tells us all we really need to know: of what our position is, on this one finite and unbounded sphere. We act from that revelation: alone worth any $$ spent to get there, or we shall soon nuke selves (and the innocent flora & fauna) into oblivion. We know how to do this.



Ashton
New On order.
     An honest question. - (cwbrenn) - (25)
         We need to support those watchdogs who guard our freedom - (boxley) - (5)
             But how do you get involved? - (cwbrenn) - (3)
                 Re: But how do you get involved? - (tjsinclair) - (1)
                     Probably not. - (cwbrenn)
                 IANAL so I can only contribute - (boxley)
             What ya said - is one good specific minimal start.. -NT - (Ashton)
         Basically... - (folkert) - (3)
             So then... - (cwbrenn) - (2)
                 Well, not by *We the People of the world"... - (folkert) - (1)
                     But it's said that God works through human beings. - (marlowe)
         Where to start? - (Brandioch) - (2)
             Re: Where to start? - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                 See #4. :) - (Brandioch)
         An honest response - question. - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
             The reason I ask - (cwbrenn)
         Moral seriousness first. - (marlowe) - (5)
             Typical Irish, never serious :-) -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                 Lowland Scots were descended from Irish. - (marlowe) - (2)
                     lowland scots? the folk Geordies use to wipe their arse with (new thread) - (boxley)
                     A lesson in history of wise one - Lowlanders are true Scots - (dmarker)
             Agreement.___[!!] - (Ashton)
         Some thoughts. - (Another Scott)
         Book Recommendation and Answer - (tuberculosis) - (2)
             Can only add - - (Ashton)
             On order. -NT - (Brandioch)

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