You did.

Post #81,251 by broomberg 2/12/03 7:19:00 PM Reply	You did. Not that you phrased it that way. But your straw man was that with unlimited budget MF people are happy to buy more stuff. Such a surprise! Here's your quote: Seriously - how many IS managers DON'T want to provide solutions; how many DON'T want to expand thier departments, or aquire new equipment...? If they can't cost effectively apply the "solutions", then they are buying toys. Big toys. Expensive toys. Toys that get paid for by other people's budgets, since they are a cost center. Toys that are so expensive they will never admit to making a mistake. There is a big difference between building fiefdoms and providing COST EFFECTIVE solutions. There is a reason they are only only grudgingly granted budgetary increases, if at all. Because they are seen as pissing away money on stuff they don't even understand. A lot of money. I didn't say YOU were incompetent. Only the few I have experience with. Actually, I'd say about 40 people so far. Just because you started on mainframes does not mean you are the example here. What do you work on now? For how long? What is your technology path? How'd you get there? I notice you did not reply to anything I said other than take offense and get pissy. Sorry if I hit a hot button.
Post #81,254 by imric 2/12/03 7:44:42 PM Reply	Well - that stereotype IS a hot button, with me. I originally wrote a reply post that was as anecdotal as yours... But decided it was irrelevant. I know a lot of good MF people that are just as adaptable as any other good computing people - some HAVE moved to management, it's true, but I have 2 good friends in particular that do both AS/400 and PC work. It may be that he MF folk you are working with stuck with thier chosen tech out of mediocrity, and are just 'sticking with what they know' to the exclusion of other tech... But that attribute exists in PC folk, and Unix folk, too. Sorry if I got pissy. PS. my 'major' money now comes from AS/400 work - some integration with PC apps - less than I had before I went 'independent' (and before my stint at managing tech for a software house for that matter)... But I also get a little money from web-work. I'm not proud of the downturn I've experienced in my career, but I can say I have never had a client that didn't like my work, and I've always advocated diversity in technology - PC, Unix, and AS/400 in particular. Most of my clients have been small-to-mid sized businesses; I haven't worked with a MF since the 80s - so consider that point taken. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #81,259 by broomberg 2/12/03 8:05:11 PM Reply	Do you consider the AS400 a MF? I don't. Until about 2 years ago, I considered it a toaster with a million dollar OS. A great OS. Crappy hardware though. And then IBM came out with the PowerPC and used the PPC hardware across it's midrange line and then the AS400 becuase both great hardware and OS. Not that they didn't have the PPC for quite some time before that. It just took a while to roll it out across the AS400 line. And then released baby AS400s that became cost effect accross a wide range of shops. Nice box. When was the last time you worked on a real MF, ie: MVS or family?
Post #81,272 by imric 2/12/03 8:45:05 PM 2/12/03 8:55:10 PM Reply	Nah - a midrange. Like I said in my PS. , I haven't worked with a MF since the mid-80s. It HAS been a long time. The '400 is a nice machine, with a good OS (though somewhat 'alien') - what I want to do now is get my hands on a box with a logical partition running Linux - but that IS my neophilia and my lust for 'toys' talking... grin I got here through a contract gig in the 80s through my old MF DP manager (he came from punched-card installations) who went independent then started work with 36s + PC/XTs. My first job for him was using the proto-PC (52??) writing a payroll system for ARC (a mentally-handicapped resource center) using BASIC, though. (ugh). From there, things progressed to the '400, though with other software houses. That man (the late Richard Shallop) was one of the finest professionals it has EVER been my privelege to work with - he taught me quite a lot. Rigid, reactionary stances were NOT his way - nor have those attitudes been typical of most of the DP/IS/IT management I have worked with - though, of course, there have been exceptions. I left those exceptions behind me quickly, though, so I AM willing to admit that MY sample might be somewhat skewed. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric Feb. 12, 2003, 08:55:10 PM EST Expand All History
Post #81,278 by broomberg 2/12/03 9:20:04 PM Reply	Skewed for sure Imagine the poor SOBs who are STILL on the MF, 20 years later. Running the same code. Cutting and pasting into a new version, again, and again, and again. Looking at the old assembler the the guru wrote 20 years ago, afraid to touch it, but depending on it. Only to find out it's been wrong the whole time, but there are too many systems that depend on the the behaviour being consistent. Welcome to my world.
Post #81,283 by imric 2/12/03 9:25:04 PM Reply	Oh, you can have it... I prefer mine... The '400 is fine. Of course, many think I'm crazy because I like RPG, but then, I'm in no position to gainsay them! Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #81,324 by broomberg 2/12/03 11:22:56 PM Reply	RPG isn't that bad I taught myself rudimentry RPGII while learning COBOL at a tech school I did the assigned COBOL exercises in RPG at the same time. 1/10 the amount of code compared to COBOL. Of course, I also wrote a COBOL generator in BASIC since I hated typing all that COBOL code.

Welcome to IWETHEY!