Post #78,944
2/3/03 12:21:40 PM
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So looks like I need to bump my XF86 version.
If that's the case, then it looks like either a) I need to jump to testing or b) somehow I need to just grab the 4.2.1 packages and install them. I was trying to avoid the Testing branch until I was more confident in my Linux abilities, but it looks like I'm headed that way. Found this [link|http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&threadm=200212311236.12968.hal%40thresholddigital.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddebian%2Bconvert%2Bto%2Btesting%2Bbranch%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26selm%3D200212311236.12968.hal%2540thresholddigital.com%26rnum%3D2|thread] on Google - looks pretty good, but I have *ZERO* clue how to implement yet. I've added APT::Default-Release "stable"; to my apt.conf, but not sure if I need to make any changes to the sources.list file. Also not sure what format the apt-get command would be, but I'm imagining "apt-get -t testing x-windows-system" sounds about right. Thanks! "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #78,958
2/3/03 1:01:36 PM
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Re: So looks like I need to bump my XF86 version.
inthane-chan wrote:
I was trying to avoid the Testing branch until I was more confident in my Linux abilities, but it looks like I'm headed that way.
The Testing branch is really nice. You might just like it. (Be sure to stay current on security advisories, since Testing [link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/debian-testing-security|isn't guaranteed covered] by the Debian Security Team in the same way Stable is.)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #78,961
2/3/03 1:14:47 PM
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Ditto.
I'm running testing here... it's a nice mix of stability and up-to-date packages.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #78,962
2/3/03 1:18:23 PM
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Well, that's part of the problem.
I'm a n00b. Not just a Debian n00b - a Linux n00b. I have *ZERO* idea what I'm doing.
Okay, scratch that. I know better than to [http://www.tessier.com/ThePlan/PlainText/irc.twits.txt|"rm -rf /" or "dd if=/usr/sbin/in.telnetd of=/dev/hda1 && /usr/sbin/in.telnetd"]. I'm still fairly new, and don't want to leave myself exposed until I know how to deal with the issues as they pop up, beyond typing "apt-get update" then "apt-get upgrade".
Once I've got that under my belt, I'll start working in the "bring the whole 'net down in 15 minutes or under" distro. :)
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #78,966
2/3/03 2:08:40 PM
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Re: Well, that's part of the problem.
inthane-chan wrote:
I'm a n00b. Not just a Debian n00b - a Linux n00b. I have *ZERO* idea what I'm doing.
Generally speaking, I advise people new to Linux to stay away from Debian -- and especially away from the default, plain-vanilla installers. However, [link|http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html|Knoppix] is an alternative and particularly painless way to install Debian (on x86 architecture only), and happens to include XFree86 v. 4.2.1.
That is, Knoppix by default is a CD-ROM-based demo system. However, if you decide you wish to, you can run a script on it that installs it onto a 2.2 GB partition on your hard drive. I've archived a [link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/debian-knoppix|set of instructions], and there are others to be found elsewhere, including one posted to this forum a while back.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #78,967
2/3/03 2:15:32 PM
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Might look into that.
Thing is, I've always learned best from Pain, and this seems like the best way to inflict Good Pain on myself... ;)
Thanks for the pointer. If I can't torture this into working, I'll give the Knoppix thing a shot.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #78,973
2/3/03 3:02:28 PM
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Re: Might look into that.
The driver is fine - the only error is that there is no screen (monitor parameters - res, depth, refresh rate) configuration that X can use. Download someone else's 128 XF86Config and put it in /etc/X11 (or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 or wherever it goes in Doobian).
What's your monitor?
Seems like a lot of people have issues. You can try running the old script xf86config4.
BTW you really want to upgrade to 4.2 anyway. Better RENDER support in xterm.
-drl
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Post #79,138
2/4/03 7:33:08 AM
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No.
The driver is fine - the only error is that there is no screen (monitor parameters - res, depth, refresh rate) configuration that X can use. Download someone else's 128 XF86Config and put it in /etc/X11 (or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 or wherever it goes in Doobian). Wrong. The error "No Screens Found" is occurring because the driver cannot locate a suitable card, because it doesn't support Thane's model. A "screen" is a combination of resolution and colour depth. Which, if no suitable graphics device can be located, clearly cannot exist. If you knew anything at all about Debian (and because you don't, and clearly can't be bothered to find out, I'm apt [har har] to discard anything you say on the subject. This reply to your comment is for Thane's benefit, not yours), then you'd know that XF86Config-4 is the configuration file, and it's located in /etc/X11. What's your monitor? Irrelevant. Seems like a lot of people have issues. You can try running the old script xf86config4. Doesn't exist. BTW you really want to upgrade to 4.2 anyway. Better RENDER support in xterm. RENDER extension support did not change between 4.1 and 4.2. You're making up plausible-sounding sentences. Thane's big win in upgrading to 4.2 will be that the ati driver will actually support his card. Perhaps you should actually research the subject at hand before spouting. Bad advice (like yours) is much, much worse than no advice.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #79,139
2/4/03 8:29:39 AM
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Not worth responding to. RTFRN
-drl
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Post #79,146
2/4/03 9:06:44 AM
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Heh.
Easier than saying "I pulled a load of stuff out of my arse", I suppose.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #79,151
2/4/03 9:25:06 AM
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Now I'm pissed
Read it your fucking self, white man.
Have YOU ever calculated your own timings? Have YOU ever modified a FB console to work on obscure hardware? Have you? No?
Shut the fuck up and stick to your janitorial duties.
[link|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html]
Rage 128 - "Supported."
He posted his startup info. It clearly states that the driver loaded, all the extensions loaded including GLX, but no valid "screens" were found so it quit. That means the combination of refresh rates and the DPMS info his monitor was sending to the card could not be matched up.
-drl
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Post #79,155
2/4/03 9:30:20 AM
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Re: Now I'm pissed
Read it your fucking self, white man. Ooh, ain't you the big man. Have YOU ever calculated your own timings? Have YOU ever modified a FB console to work on obscure hardware? Have you? No? Yes, and no. Shut the fuck up and stick to your janitorial duties. How's about you stop being wrong? [link|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html]
Rage 128 - "Supported." This is, of course the driver that doesn't detect or use the Rage 128 TF in this here GX240, but hey. Let's not let facts cloud our righteous anger. He posted his startup info. It clearly states that the driver loaded, all the extensions loaded including GLX, but no valid "screens" were found so it quit. That means the combination of refresh rates and the DPMS info his monitor was sending to the card could not be matched up. ...and it didn't detect his card. You're still wrong. Get over yourself.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #79,168
2/4/03 10:14:32 AM
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Pissed, maybe, but still wrong.
He has a RADEON 9000. Not a RAGE 128.
The driver initialized, then quite plainly informed everyone reading the trace (but you) that it couldn't. find. the. card. Read it again until this becomes plain (hint: it's the part that says "(EE) No devices detected."). Or do like I did and google for "radeon 9000 linux" and read a bit. Learn some. Be amazed at your Grand Unifying Lack of Cluefulness.
Amazingly enough, after he installed 4.2.1 the driver found his card! Alack-a-day! NOW his spew says "(EE) Unable to find a valid framebuffer device.
(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration." which is indicative of 1) possible kernel support needed (as Greg noted) and 2) a misconfiguration, in stark contrast to the previous error on 4.1. Amazing how that works.
All your bluster about what you have and haven't done doesn't mean a thing when you're wrong.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #79,147
2/4/03 9:11:50 AM
2/4/03 9:14:21 AM
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Re: Might look into that.
inthane-chan wrote:
Thing is, I've always learned best from Pain, and this seems like the best way to inflict Good Pain on myself... ;)
I salute your spirit. If you wish to go forward directly from where you are now, you need to find XFree86 4.2.1 packages that will install directly onto debian-stable without causing too many additional problems. Using the "pinning" features of apt (see the relevant passage in [link|http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips|my Debian tips file] for how), you could certainly pull down debian-testing packages onto debian-stable, but there's quite a leap in versions, there, for both the xserver-xfree86 package and for others it depends upon. So, you end up with a system that is, in effect, part debian-stable and part debian-testing.
People do that under the mistaken impression that they're being conservative. The irony is that you'd be much less likely to encounter problems form a system that's 100% on debian-testing than from one that's part one, part the other.
Alternatively, you could pull down XFree86 4.2.1 packages from an unofficial apt repository that compiles them for woody/3.0. That will in theory fix the debian-testing-dependencies problem mentioned above, at the cost of needing to rely on packages that aren't part of Debian, and thus aren't guaranteed to meet Debian's standards. As it happens, there is such a repository, and you'll find it listed among the Usual Suspects: [link|http://apt-get.org/|http://apt-get.org/]. Note that the exact line you'll need to add to /etc/apt/sources.list is given for each unofficial site.
Then, do "apt-get update" to refresh the available-packages listings, and then whatever. (I guess, "apt-get install xserver-xfree86" and/or "apt-get dist-upgrade". You figure it out.)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Edited by rickmoen
Feb. 4, 2003, 09:14:21 AM EST
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Post #79,183
2/4/03 10:43:57 AM
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Thanks!
I've already pinned myself halfway into test, and I'm seriously considering moving into it entirely - it might solve some issues that I'm having. :P
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #79,192
2/4/03 10:59:05 AM
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Dooo eeet
Testing really is rather a nice place to be.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #78,982
2/3/03 3:57:05 PM
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Not so sure about that.
Generally speaking, I advise people new to Linux to stay away from Debian Perhaps they should stay away from Debian *installers*... and then only if they are a dyed-in-the-wool Windows user. But once the distro is installed, it's easier to maintain than other distros... which is where, IME, more trouble occurs. From a personal standpoint, I would have rather dealt with Debian as a n00b. If you stick with Stable (or even Testing, for that matter), not much is going to bite you, and a lot of things that give newbies trouble (dependencies, library versions, fux0red config files from upgrading the wrong things, etc) just plain Go Away. Just my opinion, obviously. YMMV. Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #79,154
2/4/03 9:28:46 AM
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Re: Not so sure about that.
Scott wrote:
Perhaps they should stay away from Debian *installers*... and then only if they are a dyed-in-the-wool Windows user.
That's basically what I was trying to say. Debian is a maintenance regime and an administrative framework, not a particular installer. Caveat: Some people are unnerved by the lack of central administrative tools in Debian. See notes about Libranet/Xandros, below.
The following are all reasonable ways to get onto Debian:
Libranet and Xandros Desktop OS installers. These give you easier access to popular non-redistributable proprietary "desktop" stuff (RealPlayer, Flash plugin, other things). Xandros gives you an all-X11 install (used to be Corel Linux OS), while Libranet is ncurses-based (character graphics). i386-only. Good automatic hardware detection, in both cases. Cutting-edge kernel and XFree86 support for new hardware, if you buy the boxed sets. (The Libranet image generally available on the Net is for an older version.) Both include GUI administrative tools of the sort that some users prefer.
Progeny Graphical Installer image for Debian 3.0/woody. No non-redistributable proprietary "desktop" tchotchkes, but all X11-based. i386 and ia64-only. Good automatic hardware detection.
Knoppix disk and its knx-install script. i386-only. Unsurpassed automatic hardware detection. Totally painless installation.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #79,170
2/4/03 10:18:28 AM
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One thing I have always maintained:
The best way to learn is to actually do it yourself. If Thane's intention is to learn Linux, then using the bf24 install and building the system one package at a time is the best way to do so. Getting a giant lump of preinstalled stuff (Debian or not) on a system is overwhelming, IMO.
Of course, if he's really into serious pain, he could use the patented kmself chroot install like I did.[1] :-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
[1] It wasn't THAT bad, actually... ;-)
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Post #79,135
2/4/03 6:30:20 AM
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Gracias
Along with the usual [link] suspects - a perfect complement to my Hot-off-the-Press Cee Dees from
Our PolygonParagon of Virtchoo,
Greg!
Damn..!
One by one,
my procrastinations and excuses
are
dribbling
a w a y
Gawd.. it's coming
I can f e e l it,
apt-get Library of Congress
ie Thanks.
Ashton
who wonders if he shall be given a choice of filesystem by K, and have to remember Not to pick ThatFunkyOne what saves stuff about like Windoze: ~ or partially.. :-\ufffd
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Post #78,976
2/3/03 3:17:47 PM
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Re: So looks like I need to bump my XF86 version.
Okay, after realizing I needed to add "install" to the apt-get line below, this went a lot more smoothly. It grabbed a bunch of stuff, had me config a few things, and hey! Looks good. startx (various spew, mainly stuff about 4.1.0. Huh? Thought I just went to 4.2.1?) apt-show-versions -a -p xfree86-common\nbash: apt-show-versions: command not found. (bloody hell. here goes) apt-get install apt-show-versions (package is successfully retrieved and added. w00t!) apt-show-versions -a -p xfree86-common\nxfree86-common 4.2.1-5 install ok installed\nxfree86-common 4.1.0-16 stable\nxfree86-common 4.1.0-16 testing\nxfree86-common 4.2.1-5 unstable\nxfree86-common/unstable uptodate 4.2.1-5 Er, what am I doing wrong? My guess is I have to tell startx that it needs to use the new version, and that I might possibly have to uninstall the old version of X. If I'm on the right track, let me know. Oh, and DefaultColordepth (or whatever) is 24 bit - just checked. Nice suggestion, though, ross. "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #79,157
2/4/03 9:40:35 AM
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Re: So looks like I need to bump my XF86 version.
What the frell is "apt-show-versions"? And why are you installing it? Never heard of it. Hmm. {Rick installs it.} "apt-show-versions - Lists available package versions with distribution". OK. Interesting.
But I suspect you have other packages that are from the wrong XFree86 version. Do:
$ dpkg -l | less
If package names or versions are cut off, you can do:
$ COLUMNS=132 dpkg -l | less
Look for packages that don't belong on account of being for the wrong version. "apt-get remove" them. Then try again.
Also, nobody's going to be able to help you much if you don't post the diagnostic output. (Obviously, you should prune stuff that's not relevant. Which parts are relevant? You have to work at that, sorry. No easy answer.)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #79,188
2/4/03 10:47:26 AM
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Resolving dependancies.
I ran the dpkg command - got a whole bunch 'o spew back, and I'm noticing that a lot of stuff is listed at version 4.1.0-16, which is the same version as the old XFree that was on the laptop. I take it all those packages need to be pinned up to the new version...
Aw, frell - I'm just going to start a new thread, since I'm running into some issues compiling the kernel as well.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #79,193
2/4/03 11:02:50 AM
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Re: Resolving dependancies.
inthane-chan wrote:
I ran the dpkg command - got a whole bunch 'o spew back...
Yeah, I'll often filter it through grep.
...same version as the old XFree that was on the laptop. I take it all those packages need to be pinned up to the new version.
Well, not pinned. But if there's even the possibility of mixed versions of XFree86 packages, it's worth visually scanning through "dpkg -l" output to catch them. This used to be a problem with old systems based on XFree86 3.3.x that you would try to upgrade to XFree86 4.x. You'd get some packages from the old XFree86 architecture and some from the new, which is not a happy situation.
Anyhow, if you say you somehow got some packages from XFree86 4.2.1 and some from an earlier 4.x release, I believe you, but apt-get ought to catch that. Still, shit happens. Thus the benefit of vgrepping the package list.
Aw, frell - I'm just going to start a new thread, since I'm running into some issues compiling the kernel as well.
You shouldn't have to do this, just to get a 2.4 kernel. Look among the available kernel-image-2.4* packages. There's almost certainly one that meets your needs. On the other hand, if you simply feel like rolling your own, great! Here's the way to do it so that Debian knows about the kernel. (Yes, this is indeed from my Debian Tips file:
To compile kernels and auto-generate .deb packages, install and use the
kernel-package package (which provides the make-kpkg utility).
$ cd /directory/where/you/unpacked/a/kernel/tarball
$ make config | make menuconfig | make xconfig | make oldconfig
$ make-kpkg clean
$ make-kpkg --initrd --revision=custom.1.0 kernel_image
# (as root, or using fakeroot) dpkg -i ../kernel-image-X.XXX_1.0_.deb
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #79,197
2/4/03 11:09:28 AM
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My preferred kernel-building technique:
[link|http://subwiki.honeypot.net/cgi-bin/view/Main/DebianKernelBuilding|http://subwiki.honey...ianKernelBuilding]
Although I don't use initrd; change the instructions appropriately to do the same.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #79,182
2/4/03 10:42:00 AM
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Re: So looks like I need to bump my XF86 version.
inthane-chan wrote:
I was trying to avoid the Testing branch until I was more confident in my Linux abilities, but it looks like I'm headed that way. Found this thread [link] on Google - looks pretty good, but I have *ZERO* clue how to implement yet.
The linked discussion describes the "pinning" feature implemented via a change to /etc/apt/apt.conf, extra lines for an additional development branch in /etc/apt/sources.list, and a modifier that you type on the apt-get command-line to specify that you want packages from the non-default branch. I include a summary of this technique in [link|http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips|Debian Tips] file. Look for stuff about "pinning".
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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