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New Replace Lucent with "Pyramid Scheme".
Should operators of conventional pyramid schemes be illegal? Aren't the bottom rung (the ones left holding the bag) just victims of their own "bad judgement"?

Mind you, anyone who takes 2 in the bush over 1 in the bag deserves what he gets, imo. Still, I think you can build a case for unfairness if the employees were not offered the 1 in the bag, but only the 2 in the bush for time (work) served.
New Ya need to get more...

Should operators of conventional pyramid schemes be illegal? Aren't the bottom rung (the ones left holding the bag) just victims of their own "bad judgement"?

You've never been offered to partake in (damn name went right out of my head - sells all kinds of stuff - known for soap - via MLM and was nailed as a pyramid scheme several years ago....amoco? Damn.) Anyway, I mention the name if it comes back to me, but there are a lot of MLM business schemes out there that are boardline pyramids. Should they be shut down? Even what's-its'-name (this is REALLY annoying) wasn't shutdown, they just reorganized.


It's difficult for government in these instances. While some people want themselves protected, others want what's offered. Where do you draw the line? (For MLM vs. pyramid schemes, it's where the focus is - bring in recruits or selling product). Protect the people and you prevent them from doing what they want. Leave them alone and you allow them to become victims.


And I wasn't kidding about the stock deals. I've got a friend who now works for Lucent (last I checked). He used to work for a consulting firm that Lucent bought out. I'm pretty sure (didn't ask) that he made a nice bundle when Lucent bought out the consulting firm. If Lucent goes under he may lose money if he still owns stock. Was he wrong to make the money on the first deal?

New Amway. You're welcome. :-)
New Thanks....that was driving me crazy. -msg
New Not wrong on first deal, IF
it was genuinely left up to him. What I think is fair is the following:

Joe works hard for a year. Joe's performance review comes up. Joe is told by his manager (who presumeably knows more about the details of the company) that the "stock is going up". He tells Joe that he can have a $1,000 bonus or he can not take the bonus and instead be granted options which will mature in 6 months. "By then," the manager assures, "you'll make substantially more money than you would by taking the bonus." Joe makes his decision.

What's unfair:

Joe's company only gives stock and options for performance bonuses.

M$ has always paid employees around 25% less than market - rationalized by their lucrative stock option plans. That's a little slimy, imo. The company gets 25% more productivity than they paid for NOW, while the employee gets a "promise". I know its uncommon to believe this, but you really can lose money in stock.
New We're probably going to disagree on this one, no matter what
I agree with you that you can lose money on stock options. Hell, I've had it happen to me. I got stock options at $6 a share and the stock was trading at close to $4.

But then again, I've also worked for company that gave an entire $20 for a bonus. One I worked for offered no bonuses, period. Some offer stock options.


And, there's been companies that have (due to economic distress) offered employees solely stock options (no paychecks). They couldn't afford the payroll. Some employees left. Some stayed. Eventually the company got out of the hole and went public. An admin. assistant calculated that, when she cashed in her options, she had been making over a hundred dollars an hour.


What I think you want is the best of both worlds. Take a company and offer both low-risk and high-risk payment options, choosable by the employee. It may work, I don't know. But, I suspect that such an option probably wouldn't work. If I'm taking a high-risk payment option, I'm not going to be happy if you're sticking on your tail saying it's not your job during an economic crisis. Then again, like some Microsoft temp workers, you might not be happy if you're making minimum wage and I'm suddenly a millionaire.


Besides, if you don't like the options your company is providing, look elsewhere. There are other jobs on the market.


     Lucent Workers: No Job, Savings Gone - (deSitter) - (11)
         Newsflash: Uninformed people make mistake! Film at 11. - (addison) - (10)
             A stab. - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                 Hey, trade ya a crisp new $1 for that grungy $100. - (addison) - (1)
                     OT: CONGRATS! - (mmoffitt)
                 Wait a minute... - (Simon_Jester) - (6)
                     Replace Lucent with "Pyramid Scheme". - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                         Ya need to get more... - (Simon_Jester) - (4)
                             Amway. You're welcome. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 Thanks....that was driving me crazy. -msg -NT - (Simon_Jester)
                             Not wrong on first deal, IF - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                 We're probably going to disagree on this one, no matter what - (Simon_Jester)

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