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New "Fear the Penguin"
I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet but i found it to be some very interesting reading this morning. Once again, the Penguin shows it's might.

[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/technology/20LINU.html|http://www.nytimes.c...ology/20LINU.html]

Sean
New Re: "Fear the Penguin" - but "learn to spell"
-drl
New Re: "Fear the Penguin" - but "learn to spell"
I didn't see any major errors, but hey it is early in the morning. Sorry about that.

Sean
New OK
Usually I'm not a spelling Nazi, but three The Canonical Nerd Spellings PO me:

1) Looser

2) Definately

3) "It's" when it's "its"

-drl
New My favorite excerpt...
...is:
"All of Unix is more at risk than Microsoft's Windows in the next few years," said Thomas Berquist, a Goldman, Sachs analyst and a co-author of the study. "But what is really at risk is the concept of a proprietary operating system. And that has to affect Microsoft."


WOW, a Goldman, Sachs analyst realizing that... UNREAL!

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]   [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!]
Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints.
New Re: My favorite excerpt...
Yes, and we've known that for how many years? They pay people to write this stuff?
-drl
New Well....
the first line:

"All of Unix is more at risk than Microsoft's Windows in the next few years,"

is just plain stupid. Unices play well together, Windows is suddenly odd man out. Ugly file paths, stupid remote file protocols (smb), monolithic design hostile to creation of appliance boxes.

All of unix will benefit - and perhaps we can all move beyond caring what OS is under the hood and move on to worrying about getting a solid ground thumping sound system and thick shag dashboard.

OS's annoy me - they ought to all disappear like plumbing.




I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.

--Alan Perlis
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:31:12 AM EDT
New ...Unix at risk...
\r\n

the first line:

\r\n\r\n

"All of Unix is more at risk than Microsoft's Windows in the next few\r\nyears,"

\r\n\r\n

is just plain stupid. Unices play well together, Windows is suddenly odd man\r\nout. Ugly file paths, stupid remote file protocols (smb), monolithic design\r\nhostile to creation of appliance boxes.

\r\n
\r\n\r\n

This is true. However it's undenyable that GNU/Linux has eroded the\r\nproprietary Unix market from the bottom up. This is a typical free\r\nsoftwrare market incursion. First to fall was SCO (now a GNU/Linux\r\ncompany). SGI and DEC cum Compaq cum HP's Tru64 are next on the block.\r\nSGI's already lost much of the high-end graphics rendering market to\r\nGNU/Linux, though it's likely to retain its specialized high-end spook\r\nniche a while longer.

\r\n\r\n

AIX and HP/UX are already slated for replacement (likely with a long\r\nEOL tail), and SGI is actively courting GNU/Linux on Intel and Itanium\r\nsystems. Note that in the IBM and HP of these cases, however, the\r\ncompanies have other business lines, and their RISC / Open Systems lines\r\nfit into a larger strategy, which can be revisited as needed.

\r\n\r\n

Sun is the company that's being hit on a number of fronts. Instance\r\non promoting Solaris is going to be a diminishing niche. To date, Sun's\r\nbeen very reluctant to open to GNU/Linux, or free software. Largely to\r\nits detriment.

\r\n\r\n

I think GNU/Linux will shake up the traditional\r\nmicrocomputer vendors, as part of their value-added has been\r\nsoftware-induced lock-in on their hardware. A GNU/Linux-dominated world\r\nis one in which there will be far greater hardware mobility. OTOH, it\r\nwill also allow shops to mix-and-match hardware to obtain optimum\r\nperformance mixes, while deploying uniform (or non-uniform, if that's\r\ntheir choice) environments across them.

\r\n\r\n

Short term: the stubborn (yes, that's you, Scott) will suffer. Long\r\nterm: Microsoft loses. Big.

\r\n
--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New disagree in some respect Sun/gnu is alive and well
from a sysadmin standpoint. What is solaris good for? A nix OS well suited to run Oracle (DB of choice for a lot of folk) hardware support and oodles of gnu licences tools to admin same. Perfect? not by a long shot but better than many other offerings. If you use Oracle as the business backbone, what is your OS of choice?
Doesnt mean it will always be that way, but for now medium ent is Sol/Oracle/gnu
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
New Re: disagree in some respect Sun/gnu is alive and well
boxley wrote:

If you use Oracle as the business backbone, what is your OS of choice?

If you use Oracle as the business backbone, you've already handed the company chequebook over to Larry Ellison, and will use whatever he tells you to. But, yes, that will by preference be Solaris.

I've been at several firms that suddenly lurched towards Oracle, abandoning use of less platinum-plated alternatives such as DB2, Informix, and Sybase. I now see it as a bellweather for corporate inclinations towards seppuku.

Suddenly abandoning a successful codebase entirely and embarking on a massive project to replace it with a slow, ponderous three-tier Java-based architecture (**COUGH*** SourceForge ***COUGH***) is another early warning of corporate suicide. And likewise brings Solaris in its wake.

Please note that I have nothing against Solaris. It just tends to keep company with a pair of business-world Grim Reapers of my acquaintance.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New warning lrpdism alert!
"Suddenly abandoning a successful codebase entirely and embarking on a massive project to replace it with a slow, ponderous three-tier Java-based architecture (**COUGH*** SourceForge ***COUGH***) is another early warning of corporate suicide"
nice one. But Solaris is a nice base for telco gear and much cheaper that the Simens,Alcatel,Nortel equivelents.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
New Re: warning lrpdism alert!
Bill wrote:

nice one

You might be amused by an exchange we just had on the linux-consultants@softorchestra.com mailing list:

Alvin Oga:

thought was worth noting...

[link|http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/eby/sad/8113016.html|http://www.craigslis.../sad/8113016.html]

Rick Moen:

Funny, since they recently laid off all their sysadmins, that they now want to hire one.

That company has about a year's IPO cash left to burn.

Nick Moffitt:

Don't worry: Java will save them!


Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New Yep
If you need really big really high performance database, solaris/oracle have some pretty fancy upwardly scalable clustering/multiprocessor setups.




I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.

--Alan Perlis
New Re: ...Unix at risk...
Karsten wrote:

First to fall was SCO (now a GNU/Linux company).

At best, a hybrid. Lately, it seems to regard its small but loyal locked-in SCO UNIX customer base as its primary focus, devoting next to no resources to the SCO Linux / UnitedLinux half. I think they're circling the drain, myself.

Sun is the company that's being hit on a number of fronts. Instance on promoting Solaris is going to be a diminishing niche.

However, it retains one considerable redoubt, at least in the area of massively parallel computing. Linux doesn't scale to large SMP installations, and probably never will, as that is not how it's designed. (Solaris, for its part, is dog-slow in uniprocessor situations, on account of how it's tuned.)

On the whole, Solaris will probably remain the strongest of the proprietary Unixen.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New Re: ...Unix at risk...
Thanks for mentioning that not every computer is a toy that can be made "correct" with political will.
-drl
Expand Edited by deSitter Jan. 22, 2003, 12:24:37 PM EST
New Sun & SMP
\r\n
\r\nSun is the company that's being hit on a number of fronts. Instance on\r\npromoting Solaris is going to be a diminishing niche.\r\n
\r\n\r\n

However, it retains one considerable redoubt, at least in the area of\r\nmassively parallel computing. Linux doesn't scale to large SMP\r\ninstallations, and probably never will, as that is not how it's\r\ndesigned. (Solaris, for its part, is dog-slow in uniprocessor\r\nsituations, on account of how it's tuned.)

\r\n
\r\n\r\n

Though [link|http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/07/179242&mode=thread&tid=139|SGI's\r\ndone some interesting work] (also \r\n[link|http://newsforge.com/newsforge/03/01/07/1712243.shtml|NewsForge])\r\nrecently. 64 processors. GNU/Linux.

\r\n\r\n

My suspicion: GNU/Linux scaling will be accomplished via a split\r\nrole. SMP scalability will remain relatively low-end. SMP is neat\r\nstuff, but there are serious engineering problems encountered in both SW\r\nand HW as node count increases. Clustering SMP boxen in a mixed-mode\r\nwill likely produce the biggest bang for the buck. There are problems\r\nwhich restrict themselves to NUMA solutions, but many can be attacked in\r\naggregate on a clusters or mixed solution.

\r\n\r\n

Too, SMP payoff falls with node count, while complexity increases.\r\n2-CPU systems give you twice the punch of one. Doubling theoretical\r\ncycles requires doubling CPUs, with corresponding costs. Clusters also\r\nhave the same "double the count to double the throughput" issue, but\r\nbeing composed of largely autonomous units, can be stacked lego-block\r\nstyle to a much greater extent.

\r\n\r\n

SMP's appeal is to the technology marketer who sees a high-end\r\nproduct which can be sold at top dollar. The solutions engineer looking\r\nat total systems cost -- hardware, OS, administration, software\r\ndevelopment, and operations -- is likely to find a different contrained\r\noptimization point. I similarly suspect that Java's love of pthreads is\r\nbased on Sun's own success in solving this problem -- it encourages sale\r\nof their HW -- but there are alternate solutions if you take a broader\r\nscope. There will always be a small set of high-end applications which\r\ncall for SMP, but I don't expect the Linux kernel's general reluctance\r\nin this area to be a significant block.

\r\n
--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New ever the apologist for "GNU/Linux"
What Rick said was perfectly correct - amateurs and hobbyists can't afford real clusters.

BTW your statement about Java on Sun clusters was basically bullshit. Java on Sun is the biggest pig I've ever seen. You talk as if Java was some finely tuned machine - it's a stupid VM that runs as a process - how idiotic.
-drl
New Java VMs
The Sun VM as it stands (the hotspot one) is stupidly designed, as is the in memory layout of the objects. Unlike shared libraries where the os loads one copy of the code segments into memory and shares it but loads one copy of the data segments per process, the Java memory layouts mix this stuff all up and are unable to share code across multiple VM's on the same machine.

Apple has been working on an architecture to fix this and I believe they have a VM that at least loads common java code into shared memory. I don't know if this is implemented in the currrent release though.






I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.

--Alan Perlis
New I cut that out to post as well - good ain't it !!!
New Even the old guys are deluded :)
-drl
     "Fear the Penguin" - (smabernathy) - (19)
         Re: "Fear the Penguin" - but "learn to spell" -NT - (deSitter) - (2)
             Re: "Fear the Penguin" - but "learn to spell" - (smabernathy) - (1)
                 OK - (deSitter)
         My favorite excerpt... - (folkert) - (15)
             Re: My favorite excerpt... - (deSitter)
             Well.... - (tuberculosis) - (11)
                 ...Unix at risk... - (kmself) - (10)
                     disagree in some respect Sun/gnu is alive and well - (boxley) - (4)
                         Re: disagree in some respect Sun/gnu is alive and well - (rickmoen) - (2)
                             warning lrpdism alert! - (boxley) - (1)
                                 Re: warning lrpdism alert! - (rickmoen)
                         Yep - (tuberculosis)
                     Re: ...Unix at risk... - (rickmoen) - (4)
                         Re: ...Unix at risk... - (deSitter)
                         Sun & SMP - (kmself) - (2)
                             ever the apologist for "GNU/Linux" - (deSitter) - (1)
                                 Java VMs - (tuberculosis)
             I cut that out to post as well - good ain't it !!! -NT - (dmarker) - (1)
                 Even the old guys are deluded :) -NT - (deSitter)

Massteria!
74 ms