Can't possibly be based in reality

Post #74,734 by deSitter 1/15/03 8:25:46 PM Reply	Can't possibly be based in reality I can't count the number of IBM drives that have passed through my hands. Except for one I dropped, they've all been more or less flawless. So what are they bitching about? They only come in black? In a way, every drive is an IBM drive. They pioneered magentoresistive heads. -drl
Post #74,744 by admin 1/15/03 9:06:50 PM Reply	Guess you never had a 75GXP Which are notorious for failures... they were hit with a class action suit over them, and the 75 series was likely the cause of the HD division's sale to Hitachi. [link\|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5871\|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5871] - Hungarian plant closed due to 75 series quality control. [link\|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=2789\|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=2789] - 120GXP drives should only be on 8 hours per day [link\|http://www.storagereview.com/map/lm.cgi/survey_login\|http://www.storagere....cgi/survey_login] - reliability database. The IBM drives that they have collected enough results on so far have percentile scores of 63, 22, 14, 8, and 4. (percentile score meaning the drive has a better reliability reported than eg. 63% of the other drives in the survey) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #74,745 by deSitter 1/15/03 9:15:59 PM Reply	Wow - one got through Eventually of course GMR will be the standard. One reason IBM has a good reputation for hardware is conservative design. Looks like this one didn't follow that pattern. Nevertheless, I now admit IBM has made at least one bad family of drives. -drl
Post #74,746 by admin 1/15/03 9:17:24 PM Reply	Actually it was two. The 60GXPs were bad as well, just not AS bad. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #74,934 by tonytib 1/16/03 4:02:15 PM Reply	Actually, IIRC the problem was glass platters not GMR heads. Glass is used is most (all?) laptop drives, but IIRC 60GXP & 75GXP were earlier adopters of glass for desktop drives. Tony
Post #74,943 by deSitter 1/16/03 5:12:26 PM Reply	Re: Actually, IIRC the problem was glass platters Interesting - of course glass is a strange solid - more like a liquid really. Probably a basic materials oops during design. -drl
Post #74,747 by Another Scott 1/15/03 9:19:25 PM Reply	I've got a 60 GB 75GXP at work. The first time I defragged it it made a horrible clanking noise and I was sure it was going to die in the next few minutes. I posted [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=15789\|here] about it (I still haven't installed the Seagate replacement.). But that was well over a year ago now.... It's been fine and subsequent defrags have been quiet and uneventful. I keep an eye on its S.M.A.R.T. parameters with [link\|http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php\|SpeedFan] and so far it looks fine. But the 8 hours on-time and so forth do cause me to worry about the reliability of drives these days. Cheers, Scott.
Post #74,748 by deSitter 1/15/03 9:27:59 PM Reply	About 8 hours.. I'd be amazed if this advice wasn't given in lieu of having an immediate warranty replacement available. I just can't believe IBM told its customers - "Sorry, the MTBF of your drive has gone from 20000 hours to 8. Thank you for choosing IBM!" -drl
Post #75,496 by dmarker 1/19/03 10:19:05 AM Reply	My experience with Seagate & IBM 3.5 in drives is that ... I stopped buying Seagate after cooking a 30GB one, same amachine had a 60GB IBM. Today I won't buy any other brand. Also applies to 2.5 - I have a Fujitsu & it is ok but IBM ones are my preferred. On my current servers at home I have 8 IBM drives & 2 seagate plus 1 IBM SCSI 33GB. Cheers Doug
Post #75,506 by Andrew Grygus 1/19/03 11:29:46 AM Reply	You mean Hitachi, right? Seagate's first generation 3.5" drives we could barely get out the door before they failed. Since then, my experiences with Seagate have been few, but not real good. During a drive shortage a few years ago I used a bunch of Seagate SCSI drives and had 50% failures within 2 years. Something just struck me. Seagate sells a huge number of drives, supposedly dominating the market. I see the insides of a lot of PCs, brand name and unbranded. I rarely see a Seagate drive. Where are they all going? My best low failure experience was with Fujitsu, up until they exited the low end drive business. Soon after that, the batch of 20-Gig IDEs with chips with bad heat transfer compound started dropping like flies. I've got 6 of them right here waiting for RMA action. I've had normal failure rates with Maxtor and IBM (now Hitachi) drives. I don't use Western Digital at all because they are a maintenance hassle. WDs are jumpered differently for Single and Master, so every time you change a PC's configuration you have to remember to pull out the drive and change the jumpering. I just don't need that. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #75,511 by pwhysall 1/19/03 12:07:14 PM Reply	I see a lot of PCs and a lot of disks. As you know. Worst disks? Maxtor. No question. I RMA more of these than any other. Next up, IBM DeskStar drives, and Fujitsu. I don't care how good Fujitsu drives are - their stupid warranty arrangement (which makes it extremely difficult to RMA a drive) means that I hate them. Seagate and WD are on a par for reliability, and also oddly enough for having the most straightforward RMA procedure. For SCSI disks, I'm currently seeing low failure rates on Quantum Atlas and Seagate Cheetah disks. The IBM SCSI disks are just as crap as their IDE ones. Interestingly enough, a lot of the big disk manufacturers are, at least for IDE drives, dropping their warranty periods to 1 year. WD aren't doing this. I guess I'm buying WD at home next time. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #75,522 by Andrew Grygus 1/19/03 1:54:08 PM Reply	Fujitsu RMA problem. I hear that was a European situation. I had no RMA problems at all with them here in the U.S. under their "no questions warranty". As for Western Digital warranty, take it from them: Western Digital has adopted a new warranty policy effective October 1, 2002. Western Digital WD Caviar Special Edition hard drives are covered under warranty for a three-year period. All other Western Digital products will be covered under a standard warranty for a period of one year. Products purchased before October 1, 2002 are covered under the product's original warranty, unless otherwise noted on the retail packaging. Maxtor created the three year warranty, and they were the first to bite the bullet and rescind it. Everyone else followed in both cases. Certain distributors in certain countries are "enhancing" the one year warranty, but it's the distributor's warranty, not the drive maker's. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #75,520 by deSitter 1/19/03 1:32:39 PM Reply	Re: You mean Hitachi, right? Good point about the Seagates - I haven't seen one in recent memory, and I sure am not buying them. As you know, I love those old Fujitsu "Afrika Korps" 1-2gig SCSI drives - as long as you remembered to turn on write caching! A machine with several of those (Netware 3.12 server) weighed a fucking ton. Imagine an IBM PS/2 Model 95 server with six of them - what a beast. It weighed at least 50 pounds - like picking up a sack of concrete - a mini mainframe. -drl
Post #75,599 by dmarker 1/19/03 11:26:58 PM Reply	Re: You mean Hitachi, right? - No!! Fujitsu 2.5 in drive I think you guys having trouble with IBM drives must be getting them from a different plant to mine. The stories I am hearig hear just don't gibe with HK experience - IBM 3.5 are king & same for 2.5. RE the title --- we can buy Fujitsu branded 2.5 in disks here !!! I prefer IBM TravelStar but the fuje are ok as well. Cheers Doug
Post #75,600 by bepatient 1/19/03 11:38:25 PM Reply	fujitsu has better shock rating... ...thats why they get used in the portable mp3 players over the bimmers You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #76,923 by broomberg 1/25/03 12:46:29 PM Reply	Seagate == Enterprise I seem to recall they got out of the low end business a while ago. I have lots of them in the 72GB fibrechannel and above range.
Post #76,967 by tonytib 1/25/03 7:49:59 PM Reply	No, they still make low end drives But I suspect that the profit margins are higher in the ESG. And they do have a history of innovation in SCSI drives, such as the first 10K and 15K drives. Tony

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