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New Went to a UG meeting. The great unwashed....

That's a PC User Group meeting, not the GNU/Linux variety.

\r\n\r\n

I'd known for most of the past year that there was a local PC user\r\ngroup. There was apparently once a GNU/Linux users group in the valley,\r\nbut all traces have disappeared.

\r\n\r\n

So...I manage to remember the existence of the group, track down the\r\nmeeting date, and location (realizing it was the same day), ran some\r\nerrands, and still managed to show up mostly on time...

\r\n\r\n

I walk into the banquet room expecting to find a half dozen 30-50\r\nsomething guys drinking beers.

\r\n\r\n

There were 80 people in the room, by my count. Most of them in the\r\n50+ range, and quite a few pretty clearly retired. All of them earnest.\r\nThe topic for the evening was "Microsoft Windows Shortcut Keys". The\r\naudience took copious notes.

\r\n\r\n

The presentation (and pre-presentation) discussion covered a number\r\nof topics. I walked in on a presentation of using the MS Windows\r\nExplorer to view graphics files. Questions included "how do I know what\r\nsort of file I have" (YT bit his tongue on the suggestion file\r\nfoo). Demonstration of enabling file extensions in MSWE.

\r\n\r\n

I realize that This Is The Great Unwashed. This Is Who We Are Trying\r\nTo Convert.

\r\n\r\n

The Distinguished Speaker appears. There's a ten minute break, and\r\nhe begins. He writes the weekly computer column in the local paper, and\r\nhas published a few books (non-technical, it turns out, they're light\r\nfiction instead). As emerges over the course of his presentation, he is\r\n103% Microsoft. His attitude to the audience borders on patronizing\r\n(discussion of proximity and side of border, is left deliberately\r\nobscure). The audience, OTOH, appears to be somewhat used to these\r\nantics, and some backhanded commentary is heard in the galleries.

\r\n\r\n

He begins with a survey of operating systems. Win98 and WinXP split\r\nabout 75% of the users, the remainder are a mix of 95, ME (lots of\r\nthumbs down), NT, and 2K. Conspicuously absent from the survey are\r\nMac (well, it is a PC user group), GNU/Linux, BeOS, or the\r\nBSDs. In a rare and trying show of restraint, I avoid obvious mention\r\nof this fact. Talking with several folks afterwards, I find that some\r\nhave experience going back to CP/M days and before -- this isn't an\r\nentirely inexperienced crowd, and some have seen systems prior to\r\nlegacy MS Windows and WIMP.

\r\n\r\n

Talk begins. The content is...pretty fundamental. Things like\r\nwindows+R == run, windows+F == find, windows+E == Explorer.\r\nAutocomplete options in MSIE. I note that people are listening\r\nattentively and notes are being taken. It's also interesting to note\r\nthat the answer by advanced users to pointing and clicking through\r\nmenus is to find (clearly intuitive) keyboard shortcuts to cut through\r\nthe cruft. And command lines with tab completion and history search are\r\nless useful how?.... Don't get me started.

\r\n\r\n

As the discussion turns to MSIE and hot keys -- specifically alt-F4 to\r\nkill popups, I finally can't keep my yap shut, and mention that Netscape\r\nand Mozilla have a popup killing option (tabs, I figure, are something\r\nthat needs to be broken to these folks slowly). Remembering advice I'd\r\nbeen given recently, I decide to shut my yap from here on out (tongue\r\nbitten on the matter of PowerToys, the replacement to TweakUI, how to\r\nadd My Computer to the WinXP desktop, and a few other items). This\r\ndoesn't save me though, as the speaker calls on me to answer a\r\nquestion. Twice.

\r\n\r\n

But the popups discussion, and other issues -- the crap release that\r\nwas ME, software upgrades or system failures that required OS upgrades\r\nthat required replacing HW wholesale. There's an undercurrent of Not\r\nBeing Quite Happy.

\r\n\r\n

The Natives Are Getting Restless.

\r\n\r\n

There's a strong current of There's Got To Be a Better Way. Some of\r\nthe hoi polloi remember a time before legacy MS Windows. And while they\r\ngrant that it took some knowledge to figure things out, Things Worked\r\nBetter. Several iterations of crap product shipments, often upgrades\r\nmasquerading as the Emperor's New Clothes (NT, ME, 2K), data locked into\r\nproprietary formats, browser annoyances, and a constant mental haze\r\nwhich they don't yet realize is a symptom of using the anointed tools,\r\nrather than some personal failing (aside to Ross: one of the major\r\nadvantages of Debian, BTW, is that this immense fog lifts, as you See\r\nYour System As It Is). Several complaints about personal data locked\r\ninto obscure, opaque, proprietary formats. Annoyances (both the website\r\nand in general), and the awareness that they, as The Public, are being\r\nlabeled The Consumer.

\r\n\r\n

They're ready to try something different, based on a different\r\nmodel.

\r\n\r\n

At the same time, it's painfully clear that the alternative has to be\r\nVery, Very, Clear. I don't think that the command line is\r\nanathema. But it is symptomatic of a problem -- a lack of uniformity or\r\nconsistency of core tools and user configuration. Specifically:

\r\n\r\n
    \r\n
  • Installation.
  • \r\n
  • Network configuration.
  • \r\n
  • Fonts and localization Should Just Work™
  • \r\n
  • Copious, concise, and clear systems documentation should be\r\navailable (launch with an <F1> keypress?).
  • \r\n
\r\n\r\n

Knoppix may be an answer, or at least the path to it. It's\r\ndefinitely a compelling demonstration, and I'd love to spend an hour and\r\na half in front of this crowd showing what a single disk and a minute's\r\nboot cycle can make available. You certainly can't beat it for ease of\r\ninstallation. As a next step, a pushbutton "transfer this distribution\r\nto the local HD" option might smooth over the whole getting started\r\nissue.

\r\n\r\n

Still you are then left with the issue of dealing with an awful lot\r\nof people who are, if not actively afraid of computers, very much\r\nbaffled by them. They operate at a low level. GNU/Linux may\r\noffer them a better platform (I can still use tools learned a decade and\r\na half ago, and am in fact doing so as I write this document), in that\r\ntools tend to exist for a long time, aren't replaced wholesale, and are\r\ndeveloped incrementally rather than in swell foops (this was my answer\r\nto the Parental Unit complaining she'd have to learn a whole new way of\r\ndoing things).

\r\n\r\n

A challenge. Worthwhile?

\r\n
--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Definitely worthwhile.
Those who remember with some fondness the days of BBSing and OMLRs from DOS will probably follow with quite a lot of attention and intelligence into a Linux world. And then because there will still be a lot who are happier to stay stumbling along with Windows, there will be some great interoperation talks and discussions. The opportunities for many many people to compare the two worlds will abound.

Wade.

Microsoft are clearly boiling the frogs.

New If you decide to give The Karsten Knoppix Kaffe Klatch,
Would be pleased to assist as gofer or stand-in for PFY (PFOF?). From purely a Name-Grab POV though - "BBC-Linux", the name - would grab a few more than Was ist dies, Charlie? eine kleine Who? :-\ufffd It would have to be a Fun Try - and revealing, I suspect. (I also think it would feel just plain Good, like warning someone there's a scorpion in the bed)
At the same time, it's painfully clear that the alternative has to be Very, Very, Clear. I don't think that the command line is anathema. But it is symptomatic of a problem -- a lack of uniformity or consistency of core tools and user configuration. Specifically:

* Installation.
* Network configuration.
* Fonts and localization Should Just Work\ufffd
* Copious, concise, and clear systems documentation should be available (launch with an <F1> keypress?).

Thou Sayest. And until that occurs... [Thunk]

And: I *Know* that (achieving this) Works! It was possible to turn over a W3.11 system to a complete neophyte - who noted where all the wires went, took along her/our Blue Book loose-leaf with copious How-tos, loaded it into the car: I talked her through first turn-on, just in case, x000 miles away. See: there was no time for more than a cursory intro to what it looked like on-screen; she would have to read.. and do. Talk about Mission Improbable..

I also recall how many hours I spent writing that Blue Book, and including just a few "troubleshooting triage" hints -- but not a plethora of those! She had a complex task to do, and shortly: she could. Only later did she fill in some of the Whys, which are essential to get anywhere near to ~

..is that this immense fog lifts, as you See Your System As It Is

(Hell, she ain't There quite yet! despite using Doze in her job, now for many years -- another factor: many would prefer to memorize rote. Are these the vast majority ??)

Anyway, a stirring vignette. A commendable record of tongue-biting, too. Maybe this is the evolution of the PC Club of the Redwoods (?) of eons ago, which I visited when I first hit the scene. And just up the road from me is a retirement village with their own Pee Cee club.. Betcha a few of those know what an Osborne1 was, too.


Cheers,

Ashton


Every new ABM install is another cancer cell in Billy's nexus.
New Ashton as BFE?

...that would be "bearded-faced elder" ;-)

\r\n\r\n

While "BBC-Linux" may offer at least nominal name recognition, the\r\nfact is that Knoppix is the far superior new-user demo tool. LNX-BBC is\r\n(as recent bbc-lnx mailing list traffic makes explicit) an advanced tool\r\nfor experts. This would be like handing out dynamite to novice\r\ngardeners. Better start off with some rubber-handled trowels and\r\nweeders.

\r\n\r\n

Note that Knoppix probably has most of the tools the LNX-BBC\r\ndoes, but also presents, on startup, a very useable end-user\r\ndesktop. To a very large extent it Just Works™ in the way I\r\ndescribe being necessary[1]. You really have to see it to believe it.\r\nAbout the only real shortcoming is that it doesn't, by default, save\r\nuser state (it's an in-memory / from CDROM system), limiting its\r\npractical effectiveness other than as a demo system[2]. And yes, it can\r\nbe installed to the HD, but currently via a process I wouldn't unleash\r\non the unwashed[3].

\r\n\r\n

There's also the [link|http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/en/|GNUWin II]\r\nproject, which are a bunch of FSF Free Software / OSI Open Source tools\r\nand utilities, in legacy MS Windows ports. Both Knoppix and GNUWin\r\nallow others to drink the Kool-Aide without jumping into the drink, so\r\nto speak.

\r\n\r\n

Answering Another Scott's comment on transparency. I don't think that\r\nGNU/Linux is simple. But it also does relatively disguise system\r\ninternals in the way that MSFT and Apple do. There can be abstractions\r\nand helper utilities (I think of them as power assists), but you're\r\nstill largely working with the bare metal, albeit with some hefty\r\nhydraulics, smart avionics, and good default trim settings. Which means\r\nthat if you don't want to know what's going on, past a certain level,\r\nyou really don't have to (the system can run itself. But if\r\nyou do, you find that by peeling back one layer, the next is\r\nlaid out in a (usually) sensible manner, and one which doesn't\r\ncontradict the layers above or below it.

\r\n\r\n

It's small, stupid things like virtualizing "My Desktop" and various\r\nwindows icons (My Computer, MSIE, Recycle Bin, and MS Outlook come to\r\nmind) which are examples of this in legacy MS Windows. "Everything's a\r\nfile"...except if it's a link. Or if it's a file (or link) in the "All\r\nUsers" folder. Or if it's a special hook from Microsoft to user their\r\ntools (MSIE/Recycle/MS Outlook). And then there's the issue that the\r\nDesktop appears at the top of the file browsing hierarchy...but it\r\nitself a file (or superset of files, links, addenda from elsewhere, and\r\nproprietary hooks) nested at some arbitrary level within the system.\r\nThis is just an example of whats repeated endlessly within legacy MS\r\nWindows, but really leads to developing the constant fogged\r\nmindstate.

\r\n\r\n\r\n

--------------------

\r\n

Notes:

\r\n\r\n
    \r\n\r\n
  1. This is, very literally, a zero-questions-startup system. It\r\nruns on a huge range of hardware, I'd warrant any recent\r\ndesktop, and a very wide range of laptops. There's the\r\noption to specify startup options, but absolutely\r\nno need to do so for the standard case.\r\n\r\n
  2. The moderatly advanced user can get around this with mounts,\r\nmemory sticks, or whatnot. The neophyte and technologically averse\r\nWill Have Trouble. Was told on IRC last night of a backpacker who's\r\nsolve "the laptop problem" by carrying Knoppix and a 1 GiB flash\r\nmemory stick with him for user state. Literally any computer is\r\nhome.
  3. \r\n\r\n
  4. OK, is it just me who finds my use of the phrased "the unwashed"\r\nto describe Windows (users) just a wee bit bitingly ironic? ;-)
  5. \r\n\r\n
\r\n\r\n

Edits: s/Spiceware/Another Scott/

\r\n
--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Expand Edited by kmself Jan. 11, 2003, 05:06:43 PM EST
New You have a good idea there
That would be a great thing you are proposing. I meet a lot of folks who upon hearing I might know something about computers launch into either "I paid someone $$$$$$$ and it still doesnt work" or " why does my PC not understand what I want it to do" There is a hunger for knowledge and most folks with the energy to attend a meeting want and desire a better way to do things. Good luck on an future attempts to shine a light of honesty on "this thing of ours" too long have pestilent priests have muddled the regular folks with their incense waving nonsence.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
New "Why does my PC not understand what I want it to do"
That's a really big problem, IMO. Too many people think that computers work the way they do on TV shows or the movies rather than being machines with big limitations.

For example, my father-in-law was given a Macintosh a few years ago when he was about 80. He worked with computers 30 years ago when he was working, doing simulations of lots of EE-type stuff. But the Mac had him befuddled for a very long time. Things would work for a while, but then he'd call and say things weren't working properly - he couldn't get on the internet any more. When we asked him to describe what was wrong, it was very unclear. In asking him to describe what was on the screen, he eventually said there was about 3 dozen "alert"-type boxes with an "OK" buttons in them. He didn't know that he had to dismiss the alert - something that you and I would take for granted as being too obvious to need explanation. He also wanted it to be voice activated and solve differential equations by him just talking to it...

PC's aren't intuitive, yet most inexperienced people seem to think they are (since even little kids are learning to use them) so they must not be smart enough to use them. As Ashton said, years ago Win3 was discoverable - if it was running OK you could usually slowly figure out how to work with it and dig into the guts if necessary. But these days PC operating systems (including MacOS X to some extent) have gotten so big and complicated that it's really difficult for novices to get understanding of what's going on. Even people with experience have a long drawn-out learning curve whenever a new version of Windows or MacOS comes out. The built-in help is either too simple-minded ("Click this then this then this then this then this then this then this then this then this then that. Fixed? No? Well, I can't help. See your network administrator.") or too dense ("Start the registry editor and do this and and that and the other and that and this and this and this and this and this and that. Fixed? No? Well, I can't help. See your network administrator.") in too many cases. Troubleshooting and customization of configurations, especially on Windows, is a nightmare because there's so much stuff buried and scattered all over the place. "Want to change your marquee screensaver text without going through 4 mouse button presses to get the dialog? Well you do that by writing a program to edit the Registry. You do know how to program, right?" "Want to check your networking settings because you can log into some Windows network machines but not others even though you got working accounts on all of them? Well to do that it depends on what type of network you're running, what type of settings, etc. You are an expert on Windows networking terminology and hacking the Registry, aren't you?" Etc.

I hope The Baptist Deathray comes up with a better documentation/help system as it's really needed.

But the biggest problem, I think, is that PCs these days are inherently complicated machines. Hiding the complexity from the user doesn't make it "easier" because step functions in learning curves are very bad things. The interface should be designed to be discoverable and MS and even Apple these days make the system discoverable to too small an extent - novices can poke around with the system but not gain understanding that'll help when problems arise. And when something goes wrong, as it will, there's a huge jump in knowledge necessary to fix it. Too much of the system isn't documented in the help files, and too much of the help depends on knowing exactly the proper search terms. There's got to be a better way, but with MS's stranglehold on the market it'll be difficult for someone to profit by finding it.

There's an awful lot of horsepower in PCs these days that could be used to solve some of these problems, but it's wasted on eye-candy in too many cases.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Or the third Help Way..
The built-in help is either too simple-minded ("Click this then this then this then this then this then this then this then this then this then that. Fixed? No? Well, I can't help. See your network administrator.") or too dense ("Start the registry editor and do this and and that and the other and that and this and this and this and this and this and that. Fixed? No? Well, I can't help. See your network administrator.") in too many cases.


The third option for help:

Q/Topic: "What is Virtual Private Networking?"

A: "Virtual Private Networking is a virtual way to network privately."

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
     Went to a UG meeting. The great unwashed.... - (kmself) - (6)
         Definitely worthwhile. - (static)
         If you decide to give The Karsten Knoppix Kaffe Klatch, - (Ashton) - (1)
             Ashton as BFE? - (kmself)
         You have a good idea there - (boxley) - (2)
             "Why does my PC not understand what I want it to do" - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 Or the third Help Way.. - (tseliot)

Per nostra Pentium Quatro cum 2 gigahertzum e bus de cuatrocentum megahertzum...
Deo Gratie...
Per nostros Quinientum Doce megabaitum de RAMus...
Deo Gratie...
Per nostra GeForsum Duo Mu Omega cum centum ventiocho megabytum de memoria Delta Delta Rho...
Deo Gratie...
E por nostro casum de aluminum con sweetum modus e infinitum blinkenlightenus...
Amen
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