Here

IMnsHO, most folk under (50?), unless they grew up in a working household; history a frequent topic at a real dinner table - augmented by the lore of such a parental one (or pair) of real workers:

Are blowing smoke and, as you suggest - imagine selves to be 1337, more Boolean than thou. Hah..

In saner though reactionary times, when I busted ass over a loong summer at the world's largest white pine mill (Lewiston ID) and other jobs varying from primer mfg to jr. chemist yada, over several years -- I saw little in the way of the absurd make-work examples in this thread. We two (myself and an older rilly wiry guy) who loaded the "green end" of the dryer, on one gig - had a 5 minute break for water.. Water.. WATER! at the 2-hour mark, watched second-by-second towards its approach.

There always are.. the Welfare Queen slogans, such as led to Clinton out-brutalizing even Gingrich, in the sellout of 'welfare' as even a concept. Really pissed those Repos, to be out-scrimped on the lowest 20% of non-donors-to campaigns.

And my experience was the expected "condition", where the Union was the obvious and essential counterbalance of the endless war for personal greed -VS- inevitably, the suits - then not so obscenely voracious as in the Age of Billy. I can't recall the provision (part-time?) via which I needn't join that Union: but I saw employees giving bloody excellent value/time.

IT, 5? x? years ago may have seemed to be 'hi-tech' to employers - bizness droids who can't do Ohm's Law, so they picked basketweaving. They sorta had to accede to that which they didn't understand and couldn't. Then.

Now they have learned little more, except via pure SHIT like IW, pandering to and lauding their ignorance and determination not ever to rectify it. But MBAs recognize the concept, "commodification; see 'workers' now solely as YAN 'expense' to be reduced in size", and they recognize supply/demand -- as if that formula were Life. (Which IMO is where we really Are Fucked as a kultur. As thou sayest.)

So the Class Struggle remains, however much one prefers the comfortable euphemism. The IT 'workers' who imagine elite status are the lawful prey of (esp. the younger) MBA ladder droids. This as the little cubicles get moved closer together and the Hamster-bottle no longer is filled with free Dew; and as IT becomes Int'l. Commodity, along with all the other office interchangeable worker-machines. More and more people are working As or as-if Temps, with 0 sense of permanence or of being valued in any way. Do I exaggerate?

Yeah, no doubt many denizens here have a different relationship. So far. In early '03. Before Depression replaces 'Recession' on the nightly talking-head show. As the gap between Top 20% and Bottom grows daily.

Shit.. I wonder how many IT folk have *ever* really WATCHED Modern Times, the utter Genius that was Charles Chaplin -- then sat in silence for many minutes, with no e- distractions and -- pondered [?]

I wish you all extreme Good Luck - but hope also that you are investigating the concept, '*diversify your abilities', before the rush. (Unless Dad owns the Co.)

* wider than 'IT' ??

Ashton

PS - Union? It's just a word. Create. Call it a Guild, Professional Management Consortium, Coop Legislative PAC, Self-Defense Lobby, CIEIO-Defense Coalition. LifeSupport - whatever..

Post #72,728 by broomberg 1/5/03 5:33:05 PM Reply	Here Have 10,000 pages [link\|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=union+corruption\|http://www.google.co...=union+corruption]
Post #72,732 by deSitter 1/5/03 5:58:27 PM Reply	BAHAHAHA That really was funny. I'm amused that workers count for so little. What do you people regard as valuable? Obviously you don't give a damn if people slave their lives away in a hopeless situation, not knowing from month to month if they will be able to feed their families. Let's bring back coal dust and sharecropping. -drl
Post #72,818 by Ashton 1/5/03 9:44:09 PM Reply	Frog in the pot; works repeatedly via ego blindness IMnsHO, most folk under (50?), unless they grew up in a working household; history a frequent topic at a real dinner table - augmented by the lore of such a parental one (or pair) of real workers: Are blowing smoke and, as you suggest - imagine selves to be 1337, more Boolean than thou. Hah.. In saner though reactionary times, when I busted ass over a loong summer at the world's largest white pine mill (Lewiston ID) and other jobs varying from primer mfg to jr. chemist yada, over several years -- I saw little in the way of the absurd make-work examples in this thread. We two (myself and an older rilly wiry guy) who loaded the "green end" of the dryer, on one gig - had a 5 minute break for water.. Water.. WATER! at the 2-hour mark, watched second-by-second towards its approach. There always are.. the Welfare Queen slogans, such as led to Clinton out-brutalizing even Gingrich, in the sellout of 'welfare' as even a concept. Really pissed those Repos, to be out-scrimped on the lowest 20% of non-donors-to campaigns. And my experience was the expected "condition", where the Union was the obvious and essential counterbalance of the endless war for personal greed -VS- inevitably, the suits - then not so obscenely voracious as in the Age of Billy. I can't recall the provision (part-time?) via which I needn't join that Union: but I saw employees giving bloody excellent value/time. IT, 5? x? years ago may have seemed to be 'hi-tech' to employers - bizness droids who can't do Ohm's Law, so they picked basketweaving. They sorta had to accede to that which they didn't understand and couldn't. Then. Now they have learned little more, except via pure SHIT like IW, pandering to and lauding their ignorance and determination not ever to rectify it. But MBAs recognize the concept, "commodification; see 'workers' now solely as YAN 'expense' to be reduced in size", and they recognize supply/demand -- as if that formula were Life. (Which IMO is where we really Are Fucked as a kultur. As thou sayest.) So the Class Struggle remains, however much one prefers the comfortable euphemism. The IT 'workers' who imagine elite status are the lawful prey of (esp. the younger) MBA ladder droids. This as the little cubicles get moved closer together and the Hamster-bottle no longer is filled with free Dew; and as IT becomes Int'l. Commodity, along with all the other office interchangeable worker-machines. More and more people are working As or as-if Temps, with 0 sense of permanence or of being valued in any way. Do I exaggerate? Yeah, no doubt many denizens here have a different relationship. So far. In early '03. Before Depression replaces 'Recession' on the nightly talking-head show. As the gap between Top 20% and Bottom grows daily. Shit.. I wonder how many IT folk have ever really WATCHED Modern Times, the utter Genius that was Charles Chaplin -- then sat in silence for many minutes, with no e- distractions and -- pondered [?] I wish you all extreme Good Luck - but hope also that you are investigating the concept, '*diversify your abilities', before the rush. (Unless Dad owns the Co.) * wider than 'IT' ?? Ashton PS - Union? It's just a word. Create. Call it a Guild, Professional Management Consortium, Coop Legislative PAC, Self-Defense Lobby, CIEIO-Defense Coalition. LifeSupport - whatever.. (Ladies and) Gentlemen, we must all hang together or, assuredly we shall all hang. Separately. Some Brit seadog
Post #72,901 by deSitter 1/6/03 10:40:02 AM Reply	Exactly I know a number of working and retired pipe fitters through my best buddy here. Not a one of them is a shirker. They are "solid citizens". -drl
Post #72,914 by imric 1/6/03 11:13:11 AM 1/6/03 11:15:56 AM Reply	'Shirking' not my point It's the Union, doing it's job (securing jobs and benefits for workers) without real regard for the business itself that's the problem. And there ARE problems. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric Jan. 6, 2003, 11:15:56 AM EST Expand All History

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