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New You are a result of public education at its finest.
First off, as Boxley stated a "legitimate regime" is "legitimate" because it is recognized as "legitimate" by a sufficient number of other "legitimate" regimes.

But I will give you the benefit of a doubt and guess that you're attempting to define some criteria for which regimes the US should view as "legitimate" and which should be "illegitimate".

1. A functional rule of law as the general case for all citizens and members of government.
Nazi Germany would meet those criteria. Fucking Jews. Gotta keep them out of government. Better relocate them. And get rid of those damn darkies, too.

How about if you remove the stipulation of "citizens"? A rule of law applicable for ALL people living in that nation. Equal.

2. Basic human rights for citizens given substantial practical support.
Again, Nazi Germany. When you get to define who is and is not a "citizen" and "basic human rights" only apply to "citizens".....

Well, we've already established that you're a fascist wannabe.

Why is it that you keep including "citizen" in your criteria?

3. A working mechanism by which widely unpopular leaders can be removed, explicitly because they are unpopular with the citizens.
Again, you define who a "citizen" is. Then those "citizens" can determine who will be their leader. I've already posted a history of Nazi Germany showing how they were LEGALLY ELECTED.

Of course, those "citizens" who disliked him were, usually, "traitors".

It seems to me that you're trying to create criteria that match your views of which regimes are "legitimate" and which aren't.

The problem is that you don't know enough history to do anything more than bungle your way through this.

You have to put the US on the "good" side and the people you don't like on the "bad" side.

But, thoughout history, "bad" regimes have done the same things that the US is doing now.

But I've gone over this in the past.

It all comes down to you wanting to believe that the US is "good" and that people who don't agree with us are "bad".
New I think he is a highschool history teacher :-)
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
New legitimate regimes
I second Brandioch: the "citizens" proviso is a loophole wide enough to drive the Exxon Valdez through. If the regime is unwilling to extend "rule of law" to non-citizens--or if it's willing to rescind the privileges of citizenship for its own nationals, who may be deemed "enemy combatants" by executive fiat and killed out of hand (as in Yemen the other month) without oversight or appeal, the "enemy combatant" determination being made retroactively--then "rule of law" doesn't mean very much.

The American citizens in this forum were all of us born into the arrangement: none of us signed the Constitution (which I do regard as a damned fine piece of work overall, although I suspect that many of the signatories would keel over could they but see the powers this King George and his predecessors of the past couple of generations have asserted), but we are nominally bound by its provisions, even if our masters are obliged only to pay it lip service.

I'd submit that "consent of the governed" is an important element in the legitimacy of a regime, and that ours has gone by degrees from "consent" to "acquiescence" to "apathy" with regard to the attitude of the governed. Face it: for all of our lives this country has been transforming itself by fits and starts into a police state (I'm subject to drug testing at work [although, weirdly, in the fifteen years since the policy was implemented the moving finger has always passed me by], something Stalin himself never demanded of his slaves), and the process has been on afterburners these past fifteen months.

"legitimate regimes?" We in this country have no right to talk about these after the 2000 Selection.

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Expand Edited by rcareaga Jan. 4, 2003, 08:55:25 PM EST
New the amrican citizens in this forum were not all born ins
I know of at least 2 myself included that chose this country over all other systems available to us.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
New At least 3. You, Arkadiy, and me.
Alex

"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."\t-- Mark Twain
New Re: At least 3. You, Arkadiy, and me.
What can I say? Brain-fart. I stand corrected.

cordially,

"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Who needs drug testing,
when you get 10 years of hard labor for being 10 minutes late for work? IOW, who needs to test slaves for drugs?
--

We have only 2 things to worry about: That
things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
     What constitutes legitimacy of a political regime? - (marlowe) - (19)
         Wrong on all counts - (boxley) - (5)
             Full Agreement - (deSitter)
             Recognition by which others? - (marlowe) - (3)
                 Well present your list of legitimate governments - (boxley) - (2)
                     Peer review has a similar problem. - (marlowe) - (1)
                         of course reality is not a democracy, that is why Saddam is - (boxley)
         You are a result of public education at its finest. - (Brandioch) - (6)
             I think he is a highschool history teacher :-) -NT - (boxley)
             legitimate regimes - (rcareaga) - (4)
                 the amrican citizens in this forum were not all born ins - (boxley) - (2)
                     At least 3. You, Arkadiy, and me. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                         Re: At least 3. You, Arkadiy, and me. - (rcareaga)
                 Who needs drug testing, - (Arkadiy)
         Actually quite arguable - (JayMehaffey) - (3)
             right to shelter food? - (boxley) - (2)
                 Re: right to shelter food? - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                     As defined by the bill of rights and ammendments to the - (boxley)
         Definition divorced from purpose, again? - (tseliot)
         How about democratically elected leaders? Oops... - (mmoffitt)

Mmmmmm... IFKK!
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