I did it myself

Post #72,483 by orion 1/4/03 1:43:13 PM Reply	I did it myself only I got fired for doing it twice. I stood my ground against unfair management, only to get terminated twice and had nobody to back me up. Had there been an IT Union, I would have still had a job. You have no idea of the things they put me through. For an Alternative Nearly To Imitate IWETHEY please visit [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\|the ANTIIWETHEY Board] providing an alternative to IWETHEY since December 2002
Post #72,643 by gdaustin 1/5/03 10:16:55 AM Reply	How about? Orion, Since you're so hip on unionizing, why don't you go to India and unionize all these Indian programmers who are paid so much less than us? I was reading an article recently that said that the telecom, power, and road infrastructures in Southern India were already lacking, and now there are companies of the like of EDS, Microsoft, and Sun hiring and recruiting for thousands of new workers. The same article suggested that brownouts in Bangladore are already common (not good computer working conditions), and that common commute times are already above 1 hour. The monopoly telephone company takes months to connect lines (unless of course you have wined and dined the Vice Presidents). I'm really hoping that most of the companies will have so much trouble getting established, that they will give up and move back. Not likely, but it's a hope. Either that, or hope that Pakistan and India start exchanging hostilities. The infrastructure in India is already lacking, and if you could get workers' pay doubled or tripled, then perhaps that would encourage companies to move their software development jobs back to America. So, it seems to me, that if we could just get these poor, underappreciated Indian programmers a better paycheck, we could be on our way to convincing global companies to move their work back to a place with better infrastructure. (Maybe they would move back to Denver, Dallas, San Antonio, El Paso, Tucson, Phoenix, OKC, St. Louis, Detriot, Indiana, etc. instead of Silicon Valley.) The other thing that needs to occur is that global business leaders need to be "sold" on less expensive parts of the U.S., like the D/FW metroplex. Currently, our overall unemployment rate is almost 7%, and the programmer unemployment rate is about 12%. There is lots of power, lots of office vacancy, and if you plan your location well, most of your employees should have about a 30 minute commute. C/C++ programmer rates have fallen into the upper 50K to lower 60K range, and Java is about the same. Some positions are even being advertised in the 40-50K range. The cost of housing is low here, so you can afford to make 40K (if your wife works, too) and have a decent living. A 3br home in a decent neighborhood (not new, used) can be had for 100-120K. Older homes can even be found less than 100K. So, I really do think that D/FW is a good area. In the San Antonio and El Paso areas, programmers make 30K-40K a year and are bi-lingual, which would probably be even better. So, where's the advantage in India? There are plenty of places in the U.S. where there is lots of power, good commuting, cheap cost of living, and wages could be 10K more than Indian wages. If you have to build your own power plant, then relocating to India isn't such a great thing. Maybe some us need to work for the smaller city Chambers of Commerce to convince EDS, Microsoft, and Sun to stay here. Glen Austin
Post #72,694 by orion 1/5/03 2:43:29 PM Reply	Yes I agree but not just India, it would be a world-wide Union in every country know to human kind. Thailand, India, Pakistand, etc. Equal pay over the whole world, and equal respect and working conditions over the whole world so that nobody gets shafted or mistreated. I figure, by my estimates, that doing so will take 459 trillion USA dollars to form such a Union and represent such people. Can you spare a few? I'll give you my Paypal.com account, and make a web page for it like Pan Handler Joe. Let's see if I can raise that kind of money and give my life a purpose. :) For an Alternative Nearly To Imitate IWETHEY please visit [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\|the ANTIIWETHEY Board] providing an alternative to IWETHEY since December 2002
Post #72,813 by gdaustin 1/5/03 9:26:23 PM Reply	Dreamers.... Unions are illegal in many countries. In countries where they aren't illegal, the rights to strike are severely limited. I think we're both saying the same thing. You're answering my sarcasm with yours. Unions do not SOLVE problems, they MAKE problems. They cause entire industries to be destroyed, like steel in the United States. If you're serious about a worldwide union, I would answer that professional certification ( Oracle, MCSE, MCDBA, DB2 certification, etc.) is about the only way you'll get any kind of "worldwide professional association". That or something like DPMA or PMI which is way too generic to be useful. As for fundraising, I'm broke every month paying my monthly bills, so you might as well panhandle for it. Glen Austin
Post #72,891 by lincoln 1/6/03 10:29:09 AM Reply	A question for you If you're serious about a worldwide union, I would answer that professional certification ( Oracle, MCSE, MCDBA, DB2 certification, etc.) is about the only way you'll get any kind of "worldwide professional association". As I asked the IWETHEY community this [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=68466\|question], I've been looking into getting a certification in something not directly related to programming, such as a DBA position. Can you give me pointers on how to prepare and get a MSDBA, for example? While programming to a certain extent is moving offshore, companies are less eager to move the data that the business needs outside of their glass rooms (for now). lincoln "Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
Post #72,896 by orion 1/6/03 10:37:08 AM Reply	Visit this website [link\|http://www.transcender.com\|http://www.transcender.com] You can buy software that will help you get ready for the Microsoft and other certification classes. They have one on MCDBA, I believe. Or just get the one on SQL Server and then get the MSDE 2000 server to run it for free for testing out the database and queries. For an Alternative Nearly To Imitate IWETHEY please visit [link\|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey\|the ANTIIWETHEY Board] providing an alternative to IWETHEY since December 2002

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